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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Warbringer" data-source="post: 6125937" data-attributes="member: 14391">As always, conversations with you seem to end up at a higher level, which in case there is any doubt is a good thing <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />As Anscombe suggests, answering for Satan: “ the good of making evil my good is my intact liberty on the unsubmissiveness of my will.” He (Satan) maintains credible as an agent as a pursuer of value, by substituting evil for good in his own goal of action.On that note, the return by Moral modernists to Aristotelian-Thomistic tradition, while arguably avoiding any attempt to create a final universal account of moral rationality, do return us the concept of morality have teleological roots, a perfect form for any idea or virtue. (Note, it is of course far more nuanced than this.) Agreed, ultimately any meaning associated to terms or values used in evaluation of “Alignment” will by reduction (interpretation) devolve at the edges. But all models are subject to that proviso which I readily accepted above. This one I disagree with on multiple levels. To rephrase, the Paladin is the form of A and B, but where A and B are bounded by description and formula they are no longer A and B, but derivatives A’ and B’ that cannot be the perfect representation of A and B. Therefore the Paladin cannot exist in the purpose she was created for.Defining truth and goodness within the alignment system does not preclude the character aspiring for truth and goodness.  I’m not criticsing your game in any fashion, indeed there are many game elements that you have discussed that I hold in the highest regard towards what I consider advanced roleplay. It does not surprise in the least that your table resolves moral conflicts at the game table and moves on with their goals, but there are many tables where this is not the case, especially with new players or new groups still finding their dynamic. The whole point of this discussion has been to call for a system that better articulates what the intent of Alignment is in the system and to provide better guidelines and rules around the execution of the game.For what it’s worth, I do use alignment, but it is very different from as published. Players choose 4-6 traits that they feel describe the core of their character. The traits are scored to the 9 alignments. The player wants to introduce a new trait, they score it and the table tweaks it. During roleplay, the character can gain and lose traits as the player wishes to reflect his changing attitude about the world and their actions in session. Changing these traits causes alignment drift, but it is the playing of the traits that is the importance, not adherence to their “alignment”Thanks again for a great discussion</blockquote>

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