D&D 5E So what's the scoop on D&D in PDF Format?

[Greenstone.Walker]

imo, yes they should. But pointing out the shortcomings of the PDF format and refusing to accept people's thoughts that the only options are hardcopy, pdf, and DDB is genuous. What is disingenuous to me is numerous people refusal to accept that digital does not mean PDF, and that PDF is the only digital format that is possible.

Agreed. PDF is a terrible format for reading on a device because it is a represenation of a printed page, in other words, fixed.

I am currently dealing with a vendor whose documents are all A3 landscape 2 column pdfs. Reading those on a computer screen sucks. You have to keep scrolling down, then right and up, then down, then left and down.

There are much better formats for reading words on variable-sized display screens. For example, the one we are using right now - DHTML.

looks at save menu item in web browser Oh, hey...

 

[Micah Sweet]

Agreed. PDF is a terrible format for reading on a device because it is a represenation of a printed page, in other words, fixed.

I am currently dealing with a vendor whose documents are all A3 landscape 2 column pdfs. Reading those on a computer screen sucks. You have to keep scrolling down, then right and up, then down, then left and down.

There are much better formats for reading words on variable-sized display screens. For example, the one we are using right now - DHTML.

looks at save menu item in web browser Oh, hey...

I read pdfs on my Kindle all the time, no problem. If there's something I want to read, I go into my massive archive of pdfs and download what I want to my device. You're not going to convince me its a bad format.

 

[MNblockhead]

Yeah, I've been using the two apps side by side (or two tabs in the browsers), it's just kinda clunky. A vertical version of the first example would be perfect.

What OS and what version are you running? In both Sonoma (Mac) and Windows 11, when I tile two windows side-by-side, they "stick" together as if they are two panes in a single window, with a muntin in middle that you can drag to resize to make one wider and the other narrower. You can put it in a separate desktop (or "space" for Mac) to make it less wonky to switch among apps or, especially, other windows of the same app. I don't find it clunky at all, on either OS.

 

[MNblockhead]

I already told you 2 of the 3 ways for how FG content is not dependent upon the company remaining operating. So you are wrong, not me.

Not in FG. It is simple, but tedious. No formatting the output is much more challenging if you want to develop your own style sheet. But the content exportable in a simple format or plain text if desired.

and

No idea. I don't use Foundry. But I can tell you how to do it with FG with tools provided by FG. Admittedly it is tedious, but it is simple.

Good to know. My experience with FG is, obviously, limited. Though the "tedious" part is still going to dealbreaker for many people. Then again, if I am to be fair, getting content from a PDF into a VTT is tedious as well.

Yep, just like I said (and you say below the quote). And all those ways of viewing a PDF you mentioned are applications with built in PDF readers.

Well, yeah, but that's kinda the point. There are MANY PDF readers and PDF readers are built into core aspects of our devices' operating systems and our web browsers. You don't need any special software. It is difficult to think of many general computing devices that one might want to read or reference a TTRPG book on that won't handle the PDF without any further effort by the user. And you are pretty much always going to get a result you expect without any formatting.

I'm not really arguing with you. I think we are on the same page, actually, in terms of how we manage our digital TTRPG material. But I recognize why those pushing for PDFs are doing so. Many if not most people don't want to deal with the hassle of trying to future-proof VTT content. If they want to make sure they will have a digital copy of a game book long into the future, nothing beats a PDF.

 

[MNblockhead]

I read pdfs on my Kindle all the time, no problem. If there's something I want to read, I go into my massive archive of pdfs and download what I want to my device. You're not going to convince me its a bad format.

What Kindle do you have? I have a Kindle Oasis, which I love. It is great for reading novels regardless of ambient lighting. Perfect size and weight to hold and read for hours. Comfortable to use in small confines like an airplane economy seat. But it is not at all good for reading game book PDFs. I would want a PDF to keep the same "look" of my Warhammer Fantasy PDF when viewing on a laptop or larger tablet with larger and color display. But there is no way I'm going to try to read it on my Kindle Oasis or my smart phone.

With the DnD Beyond app, I have comfortably read entire D&D 5e books on my smart phone because it will reformat the text for the screen size, I can control the font size, etc.

It would be nice to have TTRPG books in formats optimized for e-readers. Where being able to read, browse, and search the test is important but maintaining the exact page layout is not. I'm hoping the technology improves to better convert PDFs to e-book friendly formats. Though, perhaps, I just need to buy a bigger e-reader if I want to read game books on the go.

 

[delericho]

The group I'm currently with meet at work in the office. And, for good and sensible reasons, my employers have locked down access to a lot of the internet, and especially games. So anything that requires a connection to DDB, and anything that requires any sort of custom software to view it is simply not something I can use.

I'm not going to argue that PDF is perfect (far from it!), and I'm sure there are other digital formats that are better, for certain values of better. But if the choice is between a less good format I can actually use versus a "better" one that I can't, it's not really a choice.

 

[CapnZapp]

So more and more, I'm wishing I could print pages from adventures to mark them up or read the books in a pdf reader. I know there' been talk about the books being made available in PDF format on D&D Beyond - has there been any news on that front? Are we talking some kind of subscription service to have the ability? I was recently looking at a BOOX, and really wishing I could pull up the books in that.

They don't want you to be able to lift attractively formatted rules content from a PDF. They want you to pay for D&D Beyond locked-in proprietary format.

The best 5E rulebook I've ever seen was the pre-release playtest PDF, since someone went through the trouble of thoroughly hyperindexing it.

What a joy to use - every term you wondered about, just one click and BAM full relevant context.

But of course we can't have nice things for free.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thankfully, without legitimate PDFs of WotC 5E D&D books, there is no way for the books to proliferate online. Thank you, WotC, for stopping piracy dead in its tracks. You cracked the code. Huzzah!

I think you need to actively append /s nowadays for people to not misunderstand you.

 

[dave2008]

I read pdfs on my Kindle all the time, no problem. If there's something I want to read, I go into my massive archive of pdfs and download what I want to my device. You're not going to convince me its a bad format.

PDFs can be good for you and bad for others. I am a staunch support of PDFs (that is the only way I get 3PP content these days); however, I am also a DnD Beyond convert. I find it much easier to actually use than a PDF. I just wish I had both as PDFs, IMO, are better for looking at pretty pictures. One of my favorite aspects of RPG books is the art and it is under developed in Beyond and much better in PDF format IMO.

 

[Reynard]

PDFs can be good for you and bad for others. I am a staunch support of PDFs (that is the only way I get 3PP content these days); however, I am also a DnD Beyond convert. I find it much easier to actually use than a PDF. I just wish I had both as PDFs, IMO, are better for looking at pretty pictures. One of my favorite aspects of RPG books is the art and it is under developed in Beyond and much better in PDF format IMO.

I think it is worth acknowledging the difference between reading and playing, too. PDFs are fine replacements for dead tree books as long as you have a decent tablet and reader app, but more RPG companies shouyld consider formatting their books in a way that works with e-readers. But those issues are separate from utility during play. Of course Beyond and bespoke VTT formats have their utility, but even something like Archives of Nethys is much more useful at the table than even a well indexed PDF could ever be.