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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
So, where is the GSL?!
- Thread starter Angellis_ater
- Start date
Angellis_ater
First Post
That gives me a firm belief. 
Man-thing
First Post
As a customer it is disappointing. When 3rd edition launched I picked up the PHB, Sunless Citadel, Nemoren's Vault and Death in Freeport (that was the 1st one right?).
Then the next month I picked up the DMG and a couple other books.
Then the next month I picked up the MM and the Creature Collection.
From the start I had choice. With 4e there is no choice. Take these core books and this adventure. There is no launch adventure at Dungeon yet and there can't be any third party support until at least October.
I guess if I decide to go 4e, I'll wait to see who supports it because I hate the delve and will not waste another dollar on a module using that format.
Then the next month I picked up the DMG and a couple other books.
Then the next month I picked up the MM and the Creature Collection.
From the start I had choice. With 4e there is no choice. Take these core books and this adventure. There is no launch adventure at Dungeon yet and there can't be any third party support until at least October.
I guess if I decide to go 4e, I'll wait to see who supports it because I hate the delve and will not waste another dollar on a module using that format.
Orcus
First Post
And there wont be any real significat print products in October, either. Think about it, with all the changes and the on again off again uncertainty of things, as a publisher you might be able to do some writing (we have) but you cant really dedicate money to art and layout before you know if you can even make the product or not under the GSL.
Dont get me wrong, I'm glad 4E will allow 3P support (I'm not saying "4E is open" anymore). But I really think people will look back at this 4E launch and scratch their heads and wonder what the heck was Wizards thinking. Those who arent doing that already.
Dont get me wrong, I'm glad 4E will allow 3P support (I'm not saying "4E is open" anymore). But I really think people will look back at this 4E launch and scratch their heads and wonder what the heck was Wizards thinking. Those who arent doing that already.
Capellan
Explorer
I'm no marketing expert, but it seems to me like WotC's main issue is communication.
Had the delay in the GSL been announced even a day in advance, and a reason given for the delay, Wizards could have avoided the dozens of "where's the GSL?" threads on this site and others, and the resulting "They lied to us again" backlash (I'm not commenting on the validity of that backlash, just pointing out that there are snarky comments in that vein on this and other sites).
A simple statement such as "We at Wizards anticipate that many people will have questions about the GSL when it is released. Accordingly, the release of the GSL has been postponed until after the weekend, to ensure that we are in the best position to receive and respond to questions as promptly as possible." should have worked a treat. Certainly a lot better than what was actually done.
Had the delay in the GSL been announced even a day in advance, and a reason given for the delay, Wizards could have avoided the dozens of "where's the GSL?" threads on this site and others, and the resulting "They lied to us again" backlash (I'm not commenting on the validity of that backlash, just pointing out that there are snarky comments in that vein on this and other sites).
A simple statement such as "We at Wizards anticipate that many people will have questions about the GSL when it is released. Accordingly, the release of the GSL has been postponed until after the weekend, to ensure that we are in the best position to receive and respond to questions as promptly as possible." should have worked a treat. Certainly a lot better than what was actually done.
Ydars
Explorer
I think WoTC have put so much effort into the design of this game that the resources (in terms of time and money) don't seem to be there for the production, publishing and DDI, let alone the GSL. I mean, the way the language the books are written in is frankly........loose. Don't get me wrong; it is a great game, I just don't think I have ever seen a better game presented in a worse way.
I am sure there is nothing sinister behind the delay in GSL; I just think they are up to their eyes in it with DDI etc.
I still feel this is pretty bad for 3PPs though and it is annoying for us comsumers, especially now we have seen how much support this game will need; the "core rules" as released are IN NO WAY adequate for the experienced gamer. We will have blasted through most of the characters builds in a very short space of time indeed.
Adventures are easier to make for sure, and so are monsters, but I bet character classes/rituals and feats will be best made by professional game designers with a deeper understanding of game balance than the average DM has time to develop.
I am sure there is nothing sinister behind the delay in GSL; I just think they are up to their eyes in it with DDI etc.
I still feel this is pretty bad for 3PPs though and it is annoying for us comsumers, especially now we have seen how much support this game will need; the "core rules" as released are IN NO WAY adequate for the experienced gamer. We will have blasted through most of the characters builds in a very short space of time indeed.
Adventures are easier to make for sure, and so are monsters, but I bet character classes/rituals and feats will be best made by professional game designers with a deeper understanding of game balance than the average DM has time to develop.
Levi Kornelsen
First Post
DaveMage said:Or maybe WotC's main issue is bureaucracy.
Hrm.
That's a tricky statement, even with a smilie on it.
The majority of RPG companies can operate unspeakably fast in terms of such discussions. They don't need to worry about speaking as a proper representative, because that's automatic. Now, that's not the same as saying that they do move at such speeds. But they can.
WotC employees don't have that luxury - and, what's more, the company has a lot of spinning plates to manage right now. Compensating for delays and changes is something they just can't ever be as fast at.
I'm happy to try and cut them some slack. I'm impatient because I want to love the GSL (despite having this horrible creeping presentiment - but that just might be a side effect of listening too much to Dame Rumour).
Due to significant system differences, it's quite hard to convert to 4E without either heavy reworking of one's own campaign material or without release of compatible campaign setting.
As it is now, WotC releases core books, while:
- WotC 4E setting is not available.
- delaying potential third party support materials.
Also, if one is not satisfied with WotC settings, one will have to wait quite a long time before being able to continue campaigning in their favorite world.
It's a wonderful business opportunity for Paizo and other OGL companies (they have been given more time to come up with quality alternative). It's a good opportunity to produce quick conversion PDF documents for those publishers who wish to switch from OGL to GSL.
Myself, I have already decided to postpone my first contact with 4E by 9 months (or even a year), in order to finish current campaign and to give everyone involved more time to release new stuff.
I am not excited with Pathfinder Alpha 3 (too many additional rules, balance changes) but they still need more time to come up with something.
I am not excited about FR.
I am unlikely to start gaming Eberron until I see official 4E version of it.
Necromancer Games products may be the only reason to be optimistic, but they haven't announced any 4E setting yet, so there is a reason to wait (my beloved Scarred Lands are, unfortunately, thing of past).
So, 9 months it is.
regards,
Ruemere
PS. I have Necromancer, Barbarian and Druid in my current party. Three more reasons to wait until PHB II.
As it is now, WotC releases core books, while:
- WotC 4E setting is not available.
- delaying potential third party support materials.
Also, if one is not satisfied with WotC settings, one will have to wait quite a long time before being able to continue campaigning in their favorite world.
It's a wonderful business opportunity for Paizo and other OGL companies (they have been given more time to come up with quality alternative). It's a good opportunity to produce quick conversion PDF documents for those publishers who wish to switch from OGL to GSL.
Myself, I have already decided to postpone my first contact with 4E by 9 months (or even a year), in order to finish current campaign and to give everyone involved more time to release new stuff.
I am not excited with Pathfinder Alpha 3 (too many additional rules, balance changes) but they still need more time to come up with something.
I am not excited about FR.
I am unlikely to start gaming Eberron until I see official 4E version of it.
Necromancer Games products may be the only reason to be optimistic, but they haven't announced any 4E setting yet, so there is a reason to wait (my beloved Scarred Lands are, unfortunately, thing of past).
So, 9 months it is.
regards,
Ruemere
PS. I have Necromancer, Barbarian and Druid in my current party. Three more reasons to wait until PHB II.
