So why monks?

[Plane Sailing]

did you even read the rest of the post???? :\

Of course! I always read ALL your posts Crothian! (that is why I've so little time for posting myself...)

As far as you knew they were a recent addition to the game, so I thought you (and others) might be interested in a bit of updating of your knowledge, of just how far back the monks came in D&D. It didn't occur to me that you'd take it poorly, it isn't as if I flat out said *You Are Wrong* or something.

So sorry if I offended you in some way, by all means PM me and we can chat.

Cheers

 

[Gez]

Everybody was Kung Fu fighting!
Those kicks were fast as lightning!

In fact it was a little bit frightening
But they fought with expert timing

Less singing, more sailing! [/Guybrush]

 

[Ravellion]

The problem I have with the monk does not stem form the class itself. Without the class however, we wouldn't have stupid fexslithing kamas as exotic weapons in our fexslithing PHBs. No wonder Monks are deadly when unarmed - with those kind of weapon proficiencies, I'd be looking for a way to deal real damage too!

Rav
Inventor of the word "fexslithing"

 

[diaglo]

Ho Ho Ho!

Monks appeared in Blackmoor, the second supplement to Original D&D. As a quick refresher

OD&D - fighter, magic user, cleric
Greyhawk (supplement 1) - paladin, thief
Blackmoor (supplement 2) - monk, assassin
Eldritch Wizardry (supplement 3) - druid

also in strategic Review, an 8 page 'zine, we had
Ranger,
Illusionist
(I forget the exact issue numbers for those now).

the druid was actually in other stuff before supplement 3, but not as a player class. they were monsters.

and you forgot the bard in The Strategic Review. but i try and forget that all the time too. ..

 

[Plane Sailing]

the druid was actually in other stuff before supplement 3, but not as a player class. they were monsters.

and you forgot the bard in The Strategic Review. but i try and forget that all the time too. ..

Well, of course I wouldn't include the "monster" druid in a discussion about classes!

About the Bard... I never knew where that first appeared, thanks. I only ever saw the two issues of the seven SR published - the ones containing the illusionist and the ranger. I've still got the latter, but the former was lent to a complete bastard who two weeks later denied all knowledge of it. Sure it was nearly 30 years ago, but it had an excellent article on creating Empire of the Petal Throne names along with letter pictograms, and I was gutted to lose it.

Cheers

 

[fusangite]

So singling out the Monk as the sole deviation in D&D from historical Medieval Europe is kind of silly.

No anti-monk person ever articulates the view that D&D models historical Europe from any period. However, it is often set up as a convenient straw man by those who want to say that because everything in D&D is different from European myth and history that it therefore doesn't matter in what way or to what degree anything represented in D&D is. The argument we make, in case a refresher is required, is that D&D monks don't come from European literature, myth or tradition and in this way can be distinguished from all other classes.

 

[Klaus]

Off topic hijack...

Didn't Bruce Lee play Green Hornet's sidekick for two seasons (or maybe just part of one)? I remember a story on the tube where Green Hornet and Batman fought each other (the usual 'oops, my mistake' storyline). If there are heros, there are sidekicks.

Anyway, the story, as I remember it, was that Mr. Lee's character was supposed to lose to Robin. Bruce wasn't having any of that, so the script was rewritten to end in a draw.

Hi jacking over...

Bruce Lee played Kato for the length of The Green Hornet (in fact, in Hong Kong the series was titled Kato). When the series ended, the Bruce and the GH producer went on to envision a Wild West series about a wandering monk who rights wrongs using Kung Fu.

The TV execs at the time thought Bruce Lee, a chinese, was too... chinese... to play the chinese monk Kwai Chan Kane, so they hired David Carradine.

Yes, it is as stupid as it sounds.

 

[jrients]

The argument we make, in case a refresher is required, is that D&D monks don't come from European literature, myth or tradition and in this way can be distinguished from all other classes.

Actually, you can find something kinda like the D&D monk in few odd places in the literature, myths, and/or traditions regarding the Rosicrucians. I've seen at least one reference in a translated German work, itself drawing from an older source, that certain Rosicrucians were trained in unorthodox unarmed fighting methods. Damned if I can remember the name of the text right now, though.

 

[Ranger REG]

The TV execs at the time thought Bruce Lee, a chinese, was too... chinese... to play the chinese monk Kwai Chan Kane, so they hired David Carradine.

Yes, it is as stupid as it sounds.

When you put it that way, it does sounds stupid. Then again, Kwai Chang Caine was supposed to be half-Chinese, which is the reason why Shaolin priest was travelling in America: to search for his father.

Anyhoo, the two seasons of Kung Fu DVD collections are available now.

 

[jrients]

When you put it that way, it does sounds stupid. Then again, Kwai Chang Caine was supposed to be half-Chinese, which is the reason why Shaolin priest was travelling in America: to search for his father.

There were plenty of Chinese men in the Old West, so the half-Chinese angle was completely unnecessary except to justify a white guy playing the lead.