Social BBEGs - how to run them?

[JoeGKushner]

For the record, the reason I specified a non-assasination response was to give those groups that don't feel killing is the right solution an alternative. All too often people jump right to the "kill the BBEG" which wouldn't work for all types of characters (like police, FBI, or other lawful agencies). Exposure can also disassemble the BBEG's entire support system while assasination may just put someone else in charge.

That's a good point. For example, bounty hunters would probably wait for the individual to break the law so they could make the big bucks while officiers in Sharn wouldn't be interested in summary executions.

adventurers in and of themselves however, often' aren't like most lawful agencies and often aren't lawful.

Heck, Lex Luthor was a pretty good version of a social BBEG but that's a super hero genre where killing, especially by Superman, isn't an everyday occurance, unlike D&D, where most times, the answer is to kill the opposition.

D&D isn't set up to handle, or at least easily handle, something where you character knows someone has tried to take you out, isn't very powerful, and well, is pretty easy to kill.

 

[kigmatzomat]

All too often people jump right to the "kill the BBEG" which wouldn't work for all types of characters (like police, FBI, or other lawful agencies).

By "lawful" I meant "in accordance with the laws" rather than "Lawfully-aligned". I probably should have said "legal" instead. Very few groups are lawfully aligned but several will try to stay legal, just to avoid the hassle if nothing else.

 

[Darkness]

D&D isn't set up to handle, or at least easily handle, something where you character knows someone has tried to take you out, isn't very powerful, and well, is pretty easy to kill.

Yeah. If his death won't have negative consequences even if the killers aren't discovered, he'd better watch out.

 

[Turanil]

Suppose you were running a D20 Modern campaign, and instead of a warlord, the BBEG was an evil businessman or a gangster. How do you determine minion levels compared to the BBEG level? Is the BBEG always the highest level character there? What if the BBEG needs an accountant, but he can't find one who is competent enough and loyal? Do you just say they're loyal (like it's a movie) or make one disloyal but too weak to stop working for the BBEG (like... in a movie, I guess)?

I would make the Cao-Cao type of BBEG a very high level character (even 20th level), with 10 levels in Charismatic (and perhaps some levels in Negotiator?). Then, I would just say his minions are loyal as in a movie. Maybe give Bluff, Diplomacy and Sense Motive +15 or +20 to that BBEG, meaning he is excellent at judging who people are and manipulate them accordingly.

 

[Undead Lincoln]

You mention the leadership feat a lot in your post. However the leadership feat is meant to balance PCs with followers with the rest of the party and the ELs of encounters they fight. These rules are needed because the generation and control of these follower is under player rather than GM control.

It is not meant for NPCs. For NPCs, the balancing factor is EL. Because their organization is completely under your control, it does not need rules for what levels of minions and whatnot. The issue, rather than balance is logic.

Also note that combat based BBEGs do not take leadership for their minions, instead they have them because it makes sense. So why attempt to make a social leader under strictures you would not apply when making any other type of leader.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Here's how I drew up Cao Cao.

Cao Cao (Charismatic Hero 7/Smart Hero 5/Soldier 4): CR 16; Medium Humanoid (human), HD 12d6+4d10–16; hp 51; Mas 11; Init +1; Spd 25 ft.; Defense 23 (+1 Dex, +6 class, +5 chain mail, +1 Defensive Two-Weapon Style), touch 17, flat-footed 17; BAB +8; Grap +8; Atk “Trust in Heaven” mastercraft (+1 hit) sword +9/+4 melee (1d8/19-20) or short halberd +9/+4 melee (1d6+2/x3); Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.; SA Weapon Focus (short halberd), Weapon Specialization (shord halberd); SQ tactical aid (2 rounds); AL Kingdom of Wei, self; SV Fort +6, Ref +10, Will +7; AP 8; Rep +9; Str 10, Dex 12, Con 8, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 17.
Occupation: Academic (bonus class skills: Craft (writing), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (tactics))
Skills: Bluff +15, Craft (writing) +19, Decipher Script +5, Diplomacy +8, Disguise +5, Handle Animal +15, Intimidate +2, Knowledge (art) +10, Knowledge (behavioral sciences) +13, Knowledge (business) +8, Knowledge (civics) +13, Knowledge (current events) +13, Knowledge (earth and life sciences) +8, Knowledge (history) +17, Knowledge (physical sciences) +8, Knowledge (tactics) +30, Knowledge (theology and philosophy) +8, Listen +5, Navigate +7, Perform (sing) +8, Profession (soldier) +5, Research +10, Ride +10, Sense Motive +6, Spot +5, Survival +5
Languages: Mandarin (literate, native)
Feats: Animal Affinity, Archaic Weapons Proficency, Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Deceptive, Defensive Two-Weapon Style, Educated (Knowledge (art), Knowledge (tactics)), Endurance, Improved Damage Threshold, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Renown.
Talents (Charismatic Hero): Coordinate, Inspiration, Fast-Talk, Inspiration (Greater).
Talents (Smart Hero): Plan (+8), Savant (Knowledge (tactics) +5), Trick (DC 18).
Possessions: “Trust in Heaven” mastercraft (+1 hit) longsword, two short halberds, chain mail, fighting robe, heavy warhorse "Hex Mark".

He was one of my first D20 Modern NPCs, so his skills probably don't add up properly. His Sense Motive isn't so great because it seemed he was easy to trick. Just look at what Jia Xu did to him!

So I see most people don't sweat it when it comes to warlords or criminal organizations. (Still, I want to know why Cao Cao got all the best henchmen. Maybe it's just because he had more people to choose from?)

PS I'm not too interested in alignment discussions, BTW. Thanks.