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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6725036" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>I disagree. TT RPGs give players the chance to play characters who are not like themselves. </p><p></p><p>You /can/ make combat a test of player rather than character ability, there are LARPs that do just that, resolve combat via players going at eachother with padded weapons. There's no difference between that an 'just RPing' the social pillar.</p><p></p><p>It was pretty awesome back in the day, with a party of all spell-casters and multi-classed casters, with reason to have OK-to-high mental stats. I would never have used those mechanics in 4e, with it's overblown laser-focus on primary stats, and inevitable dump stats (dream-selves would have been just like physical selves, but with the occasional dream-power swap - "Hey, I can fly!" "Ha, in your dreams" "Exactly! wooohooo!"), but with the right 5e party, I might very well trot it out again.</p><p></p><p>None taken, I guess I just take 'force' and 'strong' more literally . <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>The almighty WIS save, yes. I'd also tend to just picture calm, wise Clerics, Druids, & Monks as being 'mentally strong.' </p><p></p><p>Sure. </p><p></p><p>Right, the analogy to what I was doing doesn't hold up that far. Back to your original topic: Wisdom could include discerning your opponent's agenda and emotional investment clearly, so you know what to threaten or offer or compromise to get the desired response. Intelligence would help in constructing logical arguments and using facts/figures/precedents, while CHA would help with emotional appeals, keeping the opponent's respect, establishing a rapport and so forth.</p><p></p><p>I'd think that was intended in their design. Also, emphasizing Backgrounds might help mitigate that - then again, whatever you ultimately come up with, a player could optimize up a 5e answer to the 3.x 'diplomancer' to take maximum advantage of the system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6725036, member: 996"] I disagree. TT RPGs give players the chance to play characters who are not like themselves. You /can/ make combat a test of player rather than character ability, there are LARPs that do just that, resolve combat via players going at eachother with padded weapons. There's no difference between that an 'just RPing' the social pillar. It was pretty awesome back in the day, with a party of all spell-casters and multi-classed casters, with reason to have OK-to-high mental stats. I would never have used those mechanics in 4e, with it's overblown laser-focus on primary stats, and inevitable dump stats (dream-selves would have been just like physical selves, but with the occasional dream-power swap - "Hey, I can fly!" "Ha, in your dreams" "Exactly! wooohooo!"), but with the right 5e party, I might very well trot it out again. None taken, I guess I just take 'force' and 'strong' more literally . ;) The almighty WIS save, yes. I'd also tend to just picture calm, wise Clerics, Druids, & Monks as being 'mentally strong.' Sure. Right, the analogy to what I was doing doesn't hold up that far. Back to your original topic: Wisdom could include discerning your opponent's agenda and emotional investment clearly, so you know what to threaten or offer or compromise to get the desired response. Intelligence would help in constructing logical arguments and using facts/figures/precedents, while CHA would help with emotional appeals, keeping the opponent's respect, establishing a rapport and so forth. I'd think that was intended in their design. Also, emphasizing Backgrounds might help mitigate that - then again, whatever you ultimately come up with, a player could optimize up a 5e answer to the 3.x 'diplomancer' to take maximum advantage of the system. [/QUOTE]
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