Tony Vargas
Legend
I just happened to notice a tangent that seemed way too good for the thread it started in. Hopefully, quoting the conversation will draw the folks having it here to continue it.
I only wish I had some great ideas to contribute... I tried something like this back in the 80s and it was a dismal failure. Except for the occasional not-too-boring social Skill Challenge, haven't tried anything like it since.
Hemlock said:You do have a lot of options, but they require fleshing out areas of 5E that don't really have a lot of attention from the rules: tactical combat options a la Disarm and Climb Aboard, different ways to Help in combat, object manipulations, diplomacy and negotiation, etc. Concrete example: the PHB really has no guidance for the DM on when and how the Persuasion skill works and what the DCs should be. If you love intricate interacting subsystems as a player, you'll have to get your DM to write up specific rules for Persuasion, a la "asking for something simple and costless like 'do you have the time?' from a neutral party is DC 10; asking for something inconvenient like 'can you give me directions to the nearest police station?' is DC 15; asking for a major favor like 'can you drive me to the hospital' is DC 25; success means cheerful compliance, failure means reluctant compliance and DC +5 on future interactions, failure by 5 or more means refusal".EzekielRaiden said:If you want substantial breadth and flexibility, you want spells in 5e. And if you also hate being a spellcaster--whether mechanically or thematically--you don't have a lot of options.
So when you say "You don't have a lot of options," I think you actually mean, "You don't have a lot of guidance as to your options."
Edit: come to think of it, I'd pay good money for a set of 5E rules (D&D: Social Combat!) for social combat and political intrigue. Imagine certain NPCs who have Status Points, representing their reputation in the eyes of other NPCs and allow them to maintain allies and flunkies. Humiliating them or thwarting their goals can degrade their Status Points to the point where their allies begin to desert them. You can also engage in status contests where you both directly attack each others' Status (spreading gossip, etc.) at the risk of pyrrhic victory which hurts you both. In some other threads (@Aldarc) we've discussed "depth" vs. "cruft", and social/political play is an area that I would enjoy as adding depth in a positive way. So, I'd pay $50 for a Social Combat rules module, if it was well-designed and easy to explain to players. Otherwise I'd just write my own, which wouldn't have as much content.
MechaPilot said:I'm actually working on something like that.
Back during my run as a 4e DM, one of my favorite campaigns was a courtly intrigue campaign. I'm working on updating that for 5e (taking into account the loyalty and renown rules in the DMG), as well as expounding upon it a bit. Right now I've got a list of noble titles, table of average landholdings for those titles, a table for the results of managing a landhold (as well as a table for special circumstances/complications that arise from the landhold), and record sheets for landholds and for NPC relationships (which includes their loyalty, favors owed to them or due from them, etc).
Hemlock said:Lists of titles and favors owed is a start, but for players who want mechanical depth, what they will want is some actual mechanics that they can begin to optimize. And I kind of want that myself, as a DM. I actually have a number of things going on in my game that are political in nature, and it would be handy to offer players ways to "attack" various actors politically and feel like they'd done something concrete. "No, you may not have killed Ferrovankoth (adult red dragon) today, but you just cost him 200 status points by embarrassing him in front of his grandfather." Physically attacking someone with a lot of status points might be better than allowing them to crush you, but there would be ramifications if your actions are discovered. In some cases it might be possible or preferable to crush an enemy's status instead of killing him, and then turn him into an ally by offering a way to regain some status.
I should cogitate upon this notion for a while, but if WotC offers me a Social Combat module in the meantime I will almost certainly buy it and possibly even use it.
MechaPilot said:Well I did say that it was a work in progress.
For now, I'm thinking that status is going to be similar to renown, with the PCs tracking status with different groups.
I only wish I had some great ideas to contribute... I tried something like this back in the 80s and it was a dismal failure. Except for the occasional not-too-boring social Skill Challenge, haven't tried anything like it since.
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