Social Powers?

[Fallen Seraph]

I think a big thing we need to find out is if class-powers do we pick them or get all of them, if we get all of them. Then there wouldn't be any dumping since as you put it, when we go up in level we would get our:

Combat Powers

Utility Powers

Social Powers

 

[WyzardWhately]

I wouldn't be fast to say PnP-groups that like roleplaying won't use a specific system given that one of the THE PnP's specifically catering to roleplayers/social situations is WoD and the social encounter mechanics is one of the most involved/important parts of the game.

WoD is a lightweight. You ought to take a look at the Secret Arts in Weapons of the Gods, or even the social charms and stuff in Exalted. Weapons of the Gods, by the way, has one of the best implementations of social fu that I've ever seen. It uses the same general conceits as for divination, and it's genius. The short form is that you can make a prediction about someone, with a difficulty set by how improbable it is. If you succeed, they have some choices. They can go against the prediction and get a penalty, or go along with it and not. I find this exceptional because the debuffs are useful but not character-breaking, and it doesn't fall into the trap of being mind control.

Example: You've got a courtier who wants to get with one of the PCs, and comes to your Secret Arts using PC for advice. You inform her that that PC has an affinity for the color red. Let's say there's some evidence for this, because of what the character wears and yadda yadda. So, it's not too difficult. If you make the roll, you're correct, that PC does have a weakness for red. If she wears a really slinky red dress the next time they meet, the player of the target has some choices: Roleplay his character to be completely taken with this crimson vixen, or accept some kind of penalty due to the distraction and struggling with his instincts.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I may have to use that in my to-come 4e since I have been struggling to figure out a good mechanics way of dealing with foretelling the future. In the case of my game through dreams.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

WoD is a lightweight. You ought to take a look at the Secret Arts in Weapons of the Gods, or even the social charms and stuff in Exalted. Weapons of the Gods, by the way, has one of the best implementations of social fu that I've ever seen. It uses the same general conceits as for divination, and it's genius. The short form is that you can make a prediction about someone, with a difficulty set by how improbable it is. If you succeed, they have some choices. They can go against the prediction and get a penalty, or go along with it and not. I find this exceptional because the debuffs are useful but not character-breaking, and it doesn't fall into the trap of being mind control.

Example: You've got a courtier who wants to get with one of the PCs, and comes to your Secret Arts using PC for advice. You inform her that that PC has an affinity for the color red. Let's say there's some evidence for this, because of what the character wears and yadda yadda. So, it's not too difficult. If you make the roll, you're correct, that PC does have a weakness for red. If she wears a really slinky red dress the next time they meet, the player of the target has some choices: Roleplay his character to be completely taken with this crimson vixen, or accept some kind of penalty due to the distraction and struggling with his instincts.

That's a cool mechanic. It's also something I considered for any kind of social rolls against PCs in D&D. Intimidate is basically the only skill that can already allow this, if we consider the "Demoralize" use. I think it is one of the fairest ways to deal with using social skills on PCs. It still has an effect, but the player remains in control about his character.

 

[Stalker0]

To me its much more important to have combat powers that use skills than social powers.

As long as skills have a combat use, they will be taken by classes. And as long as the classes have them, they'll use them in social situations.

 

[WyzardWhately]

I may have to use that in my to-come 4e since I have been struggling to figure out a good mechanics way of dealing with foretelling the future. In the case of my game through dreams.

Well, Weapons of the Gods is complicated, but very good for this. There are a lot of variations on the theme in there.

One lets you give good advice: If the PC follows your advice, he gets a bonus.

Another means you have a *reputation* for giving good advice (this is my favorite): If he does what you say and it works out, then, hey, your advice was good. If he does what you say and it doesn't work out, he gets a bennie to make up for it (an XP, in that game, but possibly some other reward in 4E). This opens up great opportunity for the little old guy who has the reputation for giving great advice, which is actually usually pretty bad, but the players don't mind having their characters go along with his reputation rather than the fact. Because they get bonuses when it all goes awry.

Others let you move bonuses and penalties around in strange ways. I think the basic concept should be pretty portable. Let me know what you come up with, if you remember to do so once the game comes out.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Though what if your campaign is one where it is the other way around where skills are taken if they are helpful in social situations; thus social powers and they will use those skills in combat where they can.

I have had campaigns where they ONLY combat were 2 assassinations and a run-and-gun chase sequence.

Hmm, thanks WyzardWhately for all this info I may have to check the game out myself to see what I can scavenge from it

 

[WyzardWhately]

Though what if your campaign is one where it is the other way around where skills are taken if they are helpful in social situations; thus social powers and they will use those skills in combat where they can.

I have had campaigns where they ONLY combat were 2 assassinations and a run-and-gun chase sequence.

Hmm, thanks WyzardWhately for all this info I may have to check the game out myself to see what I can scavenge from it

No problem. If I didn't like talking about games, I probably wouldn't be here.

That's a cool mechanic. It's also something I considered for any kind of social rolls against PCs in D&D. Intimidate is basically the only skill that can already allow this, if we consider the "Demoralize" use. I think it is one of the fairest ways to deal with using social skills on PCs. It still has an effect, but the player remains in control about his character.

Pretty much exactly how I feel about it. Something like this would go a long way towards fixing Bluff and Diplomacy. If your big villainous NPC just can't be victim to the diplomacy roll, at the very least they should be able to shake his confidence in some way that's reflected in a non-trivial penalty. (Thus giving the party's super-idealistic cleric some mechanical reason to give him a big speech, see the end of the Care Bears movie, the one at the summer camp. Tell me she wasn't trying to apply a penalty to his Will Defense.)

 

[Pale Jackal]

The idea does have merit, and I would like to see something like this. Though I'd have to say DM discretion wins out and/or it's optional.

Turn Ally: Per-Day
You may cause a NPC to turn against his allies. Roll Bluff + Insight vs. Sense Motive + Will.
If Succeed: NPC will view his former allies as enemies.
If Failed: He will view you hostilily as well as his allies.

Makes me think of Mal converting Jayne. Conjuring up Firefly is always a good thing.

 

[kennew142]

I'm looking forward to reading the new social encounter system in 4e. I will be keeping an open mind. But as I said earlier, I have never seen a mechanical system for social encounters that didn't detract from my enjoyment of the RP experience. My gut instinct is still that those who love RP won't need it, and those who dislike it won't use it. That's not saying that gamers from both groups won't try it, and many will probably like it. I'm just saying that, in general, I don't think it's necessary.