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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elric" data-source="post: 4747740" data-attributes="member: 1139">I'm assuming you'd do this as: only the beginning of round saves worked on until end of turn effects.  You get saves at the beginning and end of rounds against (save-ends) effect.  This would add more saves to what I've got now.  Since you're less likely to save against until end of turn effects, solos are weaker against them than under my proposal above.  However, solos are more likely to save against save-ends effects; the average number of rounds goes down from 0.538 to 0.495.  Under my fix above, a save-ends effect gets noticeably more average rounds than an until end of next turn effect (0.538 to 0.35).  Here the numbers are almost equal; 0.495 for save-ends to 0.45 for until end of next turn.  I think you probably want save-ends effects to be longer than until end of turn effects under a system like this. In general I think this would be more complicated and require more rolls than what I have, and I don't know how much it would add.Edit: If you used a +0 save at the beginning of a round and a +2 save at the end of a round, then the solo would average 0.534 rounds from a save-ends effect, almost the exact same as my proposal above.  This would let you make until end of turn effects relatively stronger while leaving save-ends effects unchanged in average duration.  I can also think of a fancier proposal along these lines that doesn't require additional rolling or changing a solo's save modifier to get an effect like this, but instead requires some additional tracking: A solo has the same +5 bonus to saves as RAW.  A solo rolls saves against (save-ends) effects at the start of its turn, after taking ongoing damage, instead of at the end of its turn.  If its total is 15 or higher, the effect ends immediately.  If its total is 10-14, the effect ends at the end of its turn as usual.  A solo can roll saves against (until end of turn) effects at the start of its turn as well.  If its total is 15 or higher, the effect ends immediately; otherwise, the effect wears off at its normal time.This averages 0.56 rounds for (save ends) effects and 0.45 rounds for (until end of turn) effects.  It also removes any problems with making RAW Orb Wizards even stronger.</blockquote>

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