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<blockquote data-quote="Elric" data-source="post: 4800889" data-attributes="member: 1139">Huh?&nbsp; The reason the deity rules are more generous to the monster is that the solo's +5 bonus to saves applied on its immediate save to end a condition, and also that it can make those immediate saves against ongoing damage (an immediate save against ongoing damage is excessive; ongoing damage is arguably weaker against solos than normal monsters in the first place because of their save bonus).Right.&nbsp; Marked is a PH pg 277 condition, which is why I mentioned the strange effects a &quot;deity-type rule&quot; has on marks.This reveals a general problem with applying &quot;one-size fits all&quot; solutions as WotC changes monster design.&nbsp; If WotC takes steps over time to give solos more &quot;outs&quot;, then it's not clear whether you'd want to still apply your original fix to the new solos that were designed with “outs” in mind.&nbsp; You could apply the fix to, say, just pre-MM2 solos, but there are clearly MM2 solos that weren’t given significant outs.&nbsp; At that point, you’re getting into the judgment calls that you’d try to avoid with a “one size fits all” rule.There are some abilities that are “until the end of your next turn” where only you benefit from the ability.&nbsp; For example, Daggermaster PP’s Dagger Advantage feature.&nbsp; These abilities clearly need to stay until end of your next turn, so you’d have to make special exceptions here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Elric, post: 4800889, member: 1139"] Huh? The reason the deity rules are more generous to the monster is that the solo's +5 bonus to saves applied on its immediate save to end a condition, and also that it can make those immediate saves against ongoing damage (an immediate save against ongoing damage is excessive; ongoing damage is arguably weaker against solos than normal monsters in the first place because of their save bonus). Right. Marked is a PH pg 277 condition, which is why I mentioned the strange effects a "deity-type rule" has on marks. This reveals a general problem with applying "one-size fits all" solutions as WotC changes monster design. If WotC takes steps over time to give solos more "outs", then it's not clear whether you'd want to still apply your original fix to the new solos that were designed with “outs” in mind. You could apply the fix to, say, just pre-MM2 solos, but there are clearly MM2 solos that weren’t given significant outs. At that point, you’re getting into the judgment calls that you’d try to avoid with a “one size fits all” rule. There are some abilities that are “until the end of your next turn” where only you benefit from the ability. For example, Daggermaster PP’s Dagger Advantage feature. These abilities clearly need to stay until end of your next turn, so you’d have to make special exceptions here. [/QUOTE]

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