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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7839920" data-attributes="member: 6750235">Generally it's the fact that the wizard would only get 3 of those goblins with sleep, lol, and it's easy to wake up those who were put to sleep.  Sleep used to drop an ogre at 1st level.  Not so much these days.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />A party of wizard spamming sleep can drop a lot of goblins.  Depending on initiative.  And worg riders.  And goblin leaders.  And traps or ambushes or just plain old surprise.  Or the range of missile weapons vs the range of spells like sleep.Stopping after running out of sleep spells doesn't necessarily solve the objective (what were the goblins planning on doing with their time?) or prevent goblins tracking down the resting party for retribution while the party is resting.The wizards would need that versatility, lol.  It's not like they fight nothing but goblins and kobolds.  It's not immunity to sleep that's restricts that spell.  It's the hit points monsters have.  Wizards also need to mitigate and/or heal damage.What you are portraying as a caster issue is nothing of the sort.  A group of all fighters can stomp on a group of goblins, take less damage due to armor, are more likely to survive due to taking less damage and having more hit points, and can second wind if needed.  Then the group of fighters can take a long rest due to the default healing rules.Players are just as likely to take a long rest for healing as they are for spell slots.  Any solution to a presumed 5MWD isn't going to be resolved by targeting only spells.  The OP's proposal recognized that even if I disagree with the premise.There's not one daily resource only class that exists in the game, however.  Not one.  Every class has at-will abilities.  Every class uses hit dice healing on short rests at a minimum.  That's why we have cantrips for spells casters, and rituals for most spell casters.The assumption that spell caster will use their limited resources instead of their limitless resources while rationing limited resources is just that -- an assumption.  If that's what happens in your experience and not what happens in my experience then I know that it's just an assumption simply for the fact I know it doesn't happen at all tables.  If it doesn't happen at all tables then it's how the players are playing and how the DM is handling it, not a proven issue with the rules themselves.The rules say "this is the general assumption" and the premise of the argument is "players choose to do this instead and the DM facilitates that style of play instead of facilitating the general assumption", and not even all players at that.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />What happens is relative to the adventure and campaign.Well, there's the example of the goblins who weren't defeated yet tracking down the party before they've managed to complete their rest, for starters.If you pull something as cliché as "caravan guard", cultists attack the caravan, you blow daily resources fighting them off, and group "b" was kidnapping the caravan master's daughter (the plot hook) while you fighting the other attackers do you really thing the appropriate response to "save my daughter" is "I'll do it tomorrow".Caravan master: "Umm, why tomorrow?  Save my daughter! I hired you to protect us!"Players: "Well, you see, Bob got excited and was trying to show off, and now he wants to relax so he can show off again tomorrow."Caravan master: "So I hired Bob and he's totally useless after one battle?  Any you others are helpless without him?"Players: "Well, no.  We never actually needed Bob and none us is helpless at all.  Not even Bob."Caravan master: "So really what's going on here is you are just leaving my daughter to whatever happens to her with the those cultists....."Going with the not being out of spells the party starts the adventure, decides to quit for the day early (not necessarily right after the caravan fight but at any point), and the caravan master's daughter becomes the victim of ritual sacrifice.  The goal is to save the daughter.  The party chose to play in such a way that they fail the quest.Temple of Elemental Evil took the approach of gathering forces. If the party wasn't progressing through the dungeon there would be replacements for what they already went through and increasing numbers of opponents by their inaction.24 hours is enough to complete that ancient ritual summoning ancient evil, important NPC's to become compromised or slain, villages to be razed, and more.  It's plenty of time for the remaining forces to counter attack, shore of defenses, recruit additional resources, set traps, relocate important resources, and set extra patrols.The 6-8 encounter guidelines are an estimate to when the party should need rest.  The long rest is the party sleeping overnight.  It doesn't makes sense outside of a gamist approach that the party goes on an adventure and does nothing but wait until nightfall so they can sleep again before continuing, and events certainly progress while the party is doing nothing but waiting so they can sleep again.The only thing a DM needs to do in that scenario is add encounters to it because the party is literally doing nothing in that time as well.  That's why it's actually easier to take a short rest than it is to wait to be able to take a long rest again.  The party already benefitted from a short rest well within 24 hours prior and doesn't actually start the long rest for some time.Even the party that decides to take a long rest benefits from a short rest an hour into the wait.  At that point they aren't out of resources again because they spent hit dice and most classes either didn't need to recover anything or recovered something.That reminded me of a game I was in way back in junior high.  One of the new players asked what level the DM is.  He answered "12 billion".  Then explained the DM isn't an in-game concept after the game.</blockquote>

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