Some cool sounding stuff coming from Avalanche Press....

[Talaysen]

But there are many people who very specifically AREN'T buying Avalanche books because of their cheesecake covers. There are others who are buying them, but only because of their subject matter, and these people have made very specific negative comments about the covers.

Further, AFAIK, Avalanche Press' d20 books have not sold NEARLY as well as, say, Mongoose Publishing's books. Mongoose is currently one of the top gaming companies in the world when it comes to sales; I'm pretty darn sure Avalanche is significantly lower in the continuum.

And I have seen very, very little cheesecake on Mongoose's products. (Of course, Mongoose's books are also less expensive than Avalanche's.)

 

[DPG Darrin]

Just a different perspective on the issue here.

In some European countries, sexual content does not earn a movie a restricted rating. Violence does, on the other hand. Role playing games thrive on violence, and this has been fine with most people since the beginning, so why the uproar over some very beautiful subject matter on the covers?

The human form is not an easy thing to render. To do the job avalanche's artist has done isn't just good marketing, but also advanced artistic skill.

My own point of view is that if the content inside the book is good, I don't care what the cover looks like. If the cover is remarkable in some way, so much the better. If the cover is blase, I look past it.

The bottom line: why don't we abandon taking the high or the low moral ground, and see it for what it is - a cover?

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Um... Anyway, does anybody have a release date on Avalanche's "Vlad the Impaler" medieval Transylvania sourcebook? I special ordered this through my local game shop and it still isn't here yet...

 

[Ranger REG]

The covers are, in fact, embarrassing to many readers and both embarrassing and insulting to the writer - because the author is, in essence, being told that his work won't sell unless they slap on a meaningless cover that appeals to the lowest common denominator. He also has his name in a book that he might not be too comfortable showing to people.

And you know about a certain author's embarrassment from Avalanche Press ... how? Did this "embarrassed" author expressed his view regarding the cover artwork gracing his material to you personally?

 

[Ranger REG]

That's my point - hot bods on MAGAZINES sell. How many lust-addled rednecks are going to buy a game book?

By "redneck," you mean college students?

As if you think nerds and geeks does not know about sex. Hey, we are lust-filled, too!

 

[trancejeremy]

Um... Anyway, does anybody have a release date on Avalanche's "Vlad the Impaler" medieval Transylvania sourcebook? I special ordered this through my local game shop and it still isn't here yet...

Their website says March

http://www.avalanchepress.com/gameVlad.html

 

[trancejeremy]

Just a different perspective on the issue here.

In some European countries, sexual content does not earn a movie a restricted rating.

Yes, but in some European countries, they eat extremely strange parts of sheep, and make pudding out of blood. (Though I really can't talk - hot dogs are full of odd parts as well, and I won't go into pork rinds...so er, nevermind)

Anyway, that's really a moot point, because there is nothing on the cover that couldn't be shown on TV, or shown on store shelves (some porno magazines have to be hidden, afterall). In the US, even PG-13 movies can have a bit of nudity (toplessness, as can broadcast TV).

I personally could care less either way (unless it's jacking up the price, er, no pun intended), but even as far as 'cheesecake' paintings go, they are a bit on the tacky side, IMHO.

I mean, usally the Elmore paintings on/in TSR products had a lot of cleavage, and some leg, but they weren't actually completely unbelievable, just a bit implausible.

The Avalanche covers basically have women in lingerie, usually sprawled out in some submission or seductive pose. Not even remotely plausible. Maybe if they were doing a d20 book on the playboy mansion.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Maybe if they were doing a d20 book on the playboy mansion.

Heffner d20: The Bunnies' Revenge?


... Nah.

In any case, I've gone off on this topic often enough, so I won't charge into battle again. But I will say this much: I don't like the cheesecake covers and they are enough to keep me from looking at the product. I wish Avalanche nothing but sucess and I am looking forward to their Musketeer book, but in the end I will spend my dollar on products without the cover bunnies.

 

[Eosin the Red]

But there are many people who very specifically AREN'T buying Avalanche books because of their cheesecake covers. There are others who are buying them, but only because of their subject matter, and these people have made very specific negative comments about the covers.

I can only assume, the number of people who walk away from Avalance is substancially less than the number of people are attracted to them. The Last Days of Constanolpe sold considerably less than all of thier later titles [as reported by two local game shops]. After LDoC, the company made a concious decision to use cheesecake on their covers. If that strategy had failed, they would have tried another tactic. They haven't.

Further, AFAIK, Avalanche Press' d20 books have not sold NEARLY as well as, say, Mongoose Publishing's books. Mongoose is currently one of the top gaming companies in the world when it comes to sales; I'm pretty darn sure Avalanche is significantly lower in the continuum.

You make some big claims here. I like Mongoose, but they are one of a whole heap of d20 startups, that includes Avalance. They and Avalance both put out a good deal of stuff. Volume does not indicate profitibility or sales. I do not think you have any reasonable manner of deducing the Top Publishers , that equates to something more than your opinion. Having said that, I think Mongoose has a good chance of making it - but that is just my opinion.

Like others have mentioned [including myself], if anything drives me away from Avalance it is price, not their covers.

If you have problems with the art, you are more than justified to state why. What I see that I find troublesome is your unverifible [and IMO unrealistic] claims about Avalache as a company.

I don't like Drow, that doesn't make WotC a bad company?

My own point of view is that if the content inside the book is good, I don't care what the cover looks like. If the cover is remarkable in some way, so much the better. If the cover is blase, I look past it.

Could not agree more.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

The Last Days of Constanolpe sold considerably less than all of thier later titles [as reported by two local game shops]. After LDoC, the company made a concious decision to use cheesecake on their covers. If that strategy had failed, they would have tried another tactic. They haven't.

Fair enough. Just do me a favor would you? Kindly state the following two sentences out loud:

"I would like to adventure in Atlantis!"

... and then ...

"I would like to adventure in Constantinople!"



... call me crazy, but I think more than cover art is at issue here.