Some rules musings

[Phoenix8008]

I could go for 1 Yen per point bribed away with the clarification that ALL of the rounds points must be bribed away or none can be. Can't have sashes just reducing the hit halfway.

If you want real info on what ideas people like and not, why not start a few polls like we did when we were getting ready for the conversion to YB2.0? See what the majority thinks on some of these issues maybe.

 

[reiella]

Luck != Balance, if that were the case, then you could just as easily say that White Belts have the same level of power as Tier 4 fighters...

As guess who else beat Gray (when he was second highest ranked fighter)... a white belt.

And out of curiosity there, is DT, ST that much greater than Chi Strike, FoF, and the modifier bundles?

And yes, the only reason immunity and Styles > Locations has been that's the way they've always been. Course, alot of thingsh ave changed from how they've always been.

Insults used to always shift some of the initial flags in your favor, and then later reduced simply determination of length, and now to determination of style and speed.

Honor always only had passive powers (apart from the Diversity of Styles)...

Just because something has always been that way does not make it a good reason or idea for it to remain as such.

The potential of a DB to have both a sneaky trick and a gang turf was the only reason locations didn't have immunity initially.

And also I suppose that the terms of balance are only significant for strategy fights? If that is the case, then why don't we simply strike the standard style out entirely, if the conditions of balance are only held in the case of strategy, we should maintain it, no?

Again is there really only basis for Style > Location besides that is how it has always been? Or the opinion that yakuza powers are greater than the honored despite probability numbers saying very much elsewise.

Chi Strike goes against Sneaky Trick at least for terms of Yakuza balance. What is more useful the ability to guarantee a move will not be interfered with (sans bribe) or the ability to add a lesser weight to the move? I'm a bit willing to say they're fairly well balanced either way because they serve slightly different purposes.

Fist of Fury goes against Dirty Tricks (again terms of Yakuza/Honor at least). The ability to have a multi-hit move (and a very high multi-hit potential with nice synergies later on in tiers) against the ablity to dismiss a move. In all, I could see these are fairly equal (if Chi Strike worked with it however owuld have other problems, and I still dread the potential of a honored fighter who decides to spend their money on two Purity of Focuses -would negate all 2 of the Yakuza's tricks, or even three to negate all of the Dark warrior's as well... nasty nasty FoF pain potential there . I do tend to feel the more aggressive nature of FoF makes it more useful, but they are significantly different and willing to buy that they are about equal. It also sort of encourages a Yakuza to sit on their Dirty Tricks for FoF in general and be less likly to use them against other 'strong' moves... But again in all could consider them roughly equal.

I also don't buy that the immunity makes the game more random... How exactly is a guaranteed victory more random?

[ Yet Another Add ]
And also, wanted some discussion myself before putting having or asking for a poll on it . Far too many of the pollings on the old committee were performed with very little actual discussion :x at least up until I stopped getting mail updates. (And yes I am prolly a fair bit guilty of not contributing so much to the debates)

 

[Vanor]

And out of curiosity there, is DT, ST that much greater than Chi Strike, FoF, and the modifier bundles?

IMO yes, DT and ST are better then Chi Strike, FoF and mod's. ST gives the fighter a better chance of winning the round, and a better chance of winning a 2 or 3 point round. DT tottaly voids out a round. Chi Strike, FoF are both completly at the whim of the judge and do nothing to insure who will win the round. And until like tier 6 or so... Modifier bundles are still pretty much a non factor. With 2 modifer bundles, the odds of seeing a 3 point move is pretty low.

And yes, the only reason immunity and Styles > Locations has been that's the way they've always been. Course, alot of thingsh ave changed from how they've always been.

Insults used to always shift some of the initial flags in your favor, and then later reduced simply determination of length, and now to determination of style and speed.

Honor always only had passive powers (apart from the Diversity of Styles)...

Just because something has always been that way does not make it a good reason or idea for it to remain as such.

Insults never did this in any fight I remember. There was talk of them doing this, but it never happend. The fact that honor only had passive powers, was the reason the path needed so much work. And even though something has always been that way, isn't the best reson for something to stay how it is... Change for the sake of change is no better. And there is a point of staying true to the spirit of the game.

And also I suppose that the terms of balance are only significant for strategy fights? If that is the case, then why don't we simply strike the standard style out entirely, if the conditions of balance are only held in the case of strategy, we should maintain it, no?

I don't know where your getting this idea from. Strat games are played quite a bit different then standard games, so they do need slightly different rules, but I didn't get the impression anywhere that balance was only imporant in strat fights.

Again is there really only basis for Style > Location besides that is how it has always been? Or the opinion that yakuza powers are greater than the honored despite probability numbers saying very much elsewise.

Actualy from the numbers you posted, I wouldn't say that the honored path has a huge advantage. It was a mater of 1 in 50 on avg, which isn't much of an advantage. The biggest one is that the honored fighter will have more moves he/she is immune to, but the yak still has styles they are immune to.

 

[reiella]

Dirty Trick's value is also completly at the whim of the judge... You must decide if you use it before you generate your move afterall. And the 'added abstract weight' that only comes into play if the judge cannot choose a move to be better or not is not also wholely at the whim of the judge? Also, because of immunities, a FoF can be used to guarantee a multihit fairly easily (depending on who goes first or not), Dirty Trick simply guarantees that you don't have to face that move, when you could have a move that would have beaten the one used again by the sole whim of the judge.

Where I got that (Strategy balance worth) from was the statement by Wicht simply that the problem of excessive immunities is negated by strategy matches.

[ Another fun add yeepie ]
Also the bit of hte numbers came simply from the belief by Wicht in initial balancing that the Yakuza were more likly to be able to pull a three point move than an honored fighter, trouble is, the probability was the opposite in general.

 

[Darkness]

Regarding the immunities....

I think it was Kalanyr that had the idea of making style immunity worth one LESS point against you. So a 3 point move that your opponent is immune to will yield only 2 points (not be totaly worthless).

The idea here is that two fighters with the same style will just cancel out the style advantage. They'll still score points as normal.

I really like this idea - it makes a lot of sense and is fair, anyway.

I think [cunning/perfect defense] would be subtracted from the total round damage... ie, first you determine how much damage the move would normally do, then you subtract 1.
I sorta think that that is the intent of the rules.

This goes for cunning/perfect attack, as well, then, right? I.e., +1 damage, not +1 per move (on a FoF).

 

[reiella]

Aye Darkness (on the Perfect Defense/Cunning Defense, Perfect Attack/Cunning Attack). They are teh same power just differently named for flavor.