That's not what I'm talking about. I think you are fundamentally not getting my point.
D&D 5E Some thoughts on skills.
iserith
Magic Wordsmith
Please feel free to explain your point further then.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Accusing people of not reading the DMG is not helping your argument or perception.
iserith
Magic Wordsmith
It's pretty common in my experience for people not to read the DMG, particularly experienced DMs. If you don't fall into that category, then don't worry about it.
Vaalingrade
Legend
It's a dumb meme that should die.
I agree Anti DM help is counter productive.
Players should continually help the DM to run the session.
iserith
Magic Wordsmith
Maybe it will when more people read the DMG. I wouldn't hold out any hope for that outcome though. I doubt many people even read the PHB in any great detail either. How often are players and DMs complaining about players not knowing how to play their class or use their spells, for example? So when I see suggestions like "put a bunch of tasks with set DCs into the game" like they did in D&D 3.Xe or 4e, I can't help but have a nice little chuckle because (1) it's not likely a lot of people will bother to actually read it and (2) the DM doesn't have to obey anything in the rules anyway. A DM who wants to set really high DCs to make the characters look like Keystone Cops is not a problem the rules can solve. So it looks more to me like some folks want to have their preferred design or playstyle endorsed by an authority of some kind, even if they despise said authority. It seems odd to me.
Clint_L
Hero
I agree. A lot of arguments on this and other issues seem to assume a sort of adversarial relationship between the DM and players. But is that really the case at most tables? Probably we mostly settle on playing with folks that we like and get along with, and folks have a strong incentive to be agreeable and cooperate. That's why I think a lot of these debates, while fun to argue on a technical level, are mostly solutions looking for problems. At least when it comes to my table, and I suspect most tables.
Mostly we are all a bunch of nerds who think alike and want to hang out and have fun. We just enjoy arguing points on the internet.
iserith
Magic Wordsmith
@Minigiant "Hard for whom?" isn't actually a consideration. Only the task itself is, as I explained already upthread with the example of breaking down a door for a barbarian and a rogue. The DC doesn't change because someone different is attempting the task.
DMG page 238: "If you've decided an ability check is called for, the most likely the task at hand isn't a very easy one... unless circumstances are unusual, let characters succeed at such a task without making a check... Then ask yourself, 'Is this task's difficulty easy, moderate, or hard?' If the only DCs you ever use are 10, 15, and 20, your game will run just fine." See how this references the task itself and not who is doing the task?
DMG page 238: "If you've decided an ability check is called for, the most likely the task at hand isn't a very easy one... unless circumstances are unusual, let characters succeed at such a task without making a check... Then ask yourself, 'Is this task's difficulty easy, moderate, or hard?' If the only DCs you ever use are 10, 15, and 20, your game will run just fine." See how this references the task itself and not who is doing the task?
