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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6727682" data-attributes="member: 37579">Originally posted by wrecan:Which is much sturdier than modern-day industrial clothing. Industrial clothing is built to be mass-produced and last a few years of casual use. medieval clothing is hand-built to withstand many years of grueling physical labor. Adventurers -- the guys who are going to encounter harpoon-weilding goblins -- will have clothes built for their job.What Die Hard movie did you watch? I watched the one where McClane is out of action for no more than a few minutes at a time (enough time to activate a healing surge) and never seems to suffer any wound penalties (though at one point the loss of one shoe does penalize his movement across the difficult terrain of shattered glass). Heck, at the end of the movie, McClane's in good enough shape to get it on with his wife in the back of a limo. Where's the wound penalty? Where's the weeks of recuperation.Indiana Jones is another one. One night's sleep and Indy goes from hurts everywhere but a few isolated parts of his body to good enough to swim the open seas from a freighter to a German U-Boat, beat up a few Nazis and steal a bazooka!"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."-Ralph Waldo EmersonWhen someone is attacking with poison and the poison affects the recipient, he received a small graze that otherwise doesn't affect his combat abilities. When he is either missed or is hit and saves against the poison, he was not grazed by the weapon.Now, for the fifth time, answer my question:Imagine a 103-hp fighter (11th level, 16 Con) reduced to 1 hp after a grueling battle with another swordsman. The 103-hp fighter has wounds that will take a week to fully heal without magical assistance and yet he fights just as well (i.e., no penalties to attack, damage or speed) after receiving all those grave wounds as he did before receiving them.How do you explain that in a way that still requires one to spend a week healing?You cited Die Hard, but McClane doesn't spend a week healing. Everyone in that movie is in top-fighting form until they're dead. People may look battered and bruised, but a few minutes rest is all anybody ever requires (assuming they don't die).I. Don't. Care. It's not the topic of the thread. We're comparing 3rd edition healing to 4th edition healing, not to Psychotic_Robot's House Ruled Wound Penalty Chart.No, it represents a ball of magical fire -- possibly even cartoon fire -- that puts scorch marks on the people it doesn't kill, and magically doesn't burn all the scrolls sitting in the wizard's cloth backpack. (Well, not since 3rd edition eliminated item saving throws in area of effect spells.)And now the rules don't require a week to heal. If you're going to cite the rules to justify third, then the rules equally justify Fourth.If you'll notice, this thread was not started to mock Third Edition healign rules. Cantankerous is asking us to justify Fourth Edition healing rules. To which I replied that I can often use the same justifications used by those defending Third Edition rules. And you have just proved my point.But you have no evidence for that assertion, which means it cannot be used to justify Third Edition healing.But that problem exists equally in Third, which also doesn't have rules for broken arms, severed fingers, etc. (All of which should take a lot longer to recover from than the either the five days needed in Third or the six hours needed in Fourth.) Again, all you're pointing out is that neither third nor fourth had wound penalties.That has nothing to do with healing rates.Except we gave you a perfectly good reason: hit points are a total abstraction. Which it has to be, because combat in D&D is nothing like real combat. What was that answer? You fight just as well after a battle as before. But these invisible hit points take five days to replenish. But there's no outward manifestation of the depleted hit point pool because D&D doesn't have wound penalties.Why? What's he recovering? From the outside, the fighter at 1 hp and 103 hp perform equally well on the battlefield. Any amount of healing is an arbitrary distinction.Why must the wear down factor be a week rather than a good night's rest? How did this "wear down factor" manifest in games? Was it anything other than role-playing being worn? Because in that case, you're complaining that the game doesn't give you mechanics to reflect your roleplay, something which I think is a hindrance to roleplay rather than a help.There is no "gestalt effect". Hit points are an abstraction, but the only "effect" they have is to tell you whether you're conscious or unconscious. Anything beyond that is your own roleplay patina utterly unsupported by the rules.And as a disclaimer: I had no problem with 3rd edition one-week recuperation rules. I don't have a problem with 4th edition one-day recuperation rules. I didn't have a problem with AD&D and 2d edition recuperation rules that sometimes required months of recuperation. Why? Because I always understood that hp are an abstraction that don't necessarily reflect physical injury, so the amount of time it takes to replenish the hp pool is utterly arbitrary. I can live with pretty much any rate of recuperation. Heck, as long as the game is otherwise designed to be challenging, I'd be fine with total recuperation after every encounter. It doesn't bug my sense of plausibility because hp-pools don't exist in the real world.</blockquote>

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