Something I could do without...

[Celebrim]

Check out page 101 of the Dungeon Master's Guide. A mansion costs 100,000 gp. Even a 'grand house' costs 5,000 gp.

LOL.

That brings me back. No price list was ever more gamed than those of 1st edition AD&D. Gygax took pains to ensure that the big piles of treasure potentially being handed out did not in fact turn readily into significant PC clout. The 1st edition DMG was filled with suggestions for disposing of player wealth (partly this was to offset the fact that players pretty much had to get rich in order to gain levels in 1st edition). In an effort to ensure that the PC's could not afford anything more than a modest castle stronghold the costs for buildings in the 1st edition DMG was jacked up to meet the expected wealth levels of moderately high level characters rather than having anything to do with actual materials and labor costs.

The result of this was that, strictly by the rules, no non-adventurer could afford to put a roof over his head. For example, a simple wooden dwelling cost something a little over 500 gp by the book (IIRC). But ever the stickler for obscure historical detail, Gygax fixed a peasants daily wage at the historically accurate 1 s.p. a day, and the exchange rate between silver and gold at the historically accurate 20:1. This meant that a peasant's dirt floor hovel was worth like 10,000 silver peices (if 1 s.p. is a daily wage for unskilled labor, think $500,000).

There is a thread around here regarding what we'd like to buy that isn't on the market. My vote now that I think about it is a price list that makes economic sense.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

That's one I'd like to see as well. But since I most likely never will...

If you want one you'll have to build it yourself. There are several good places to start. Probably one of the best is Fordhams' Medieval Price List. From there is should be possible to work out an economically plausible price list.

What I'd really like to see is something slightly more like the GURPS pricing. Where there is a basic price list using an arbitrary currency that is mostly just there to provide scale. And a series of different currency systems for different time periods and economies. Say one for a bronze age city-state, early medieval, late medieval, early renaissance, eighteenth century and nineteenth century. Also a set of modifiers to apply to a basic economy to account for being stable, unstable, on the coast, inland, desert, plains, etc.

 

[VirgilCaine]

The senselessness of it is most apparent in magic items. A high level mage might pay 70,000 gp for 'components' to make a magic staff. Who even has that much magic fluff stored away, and why doesn't the purchase destabilize the economy of the kingdom? For that matter, why isn't sale of magic fluff controlled by law and managed by the kingdom? That'd put a damper on those pesky necromancers and their magic items of doom.

In my campaign world, all arcane spellcasting is controlled by The Guild. The Guild is a guild of wizards covering the main civilized continent of the world.
There are regional subsections to the guild, but all of the guilds are friendly with each other and have the same standards.

All prospective wizards apprentices are subject to a "legacy" divination spell to determine the possibility of them becoming evil before they receive training.
Another part of becoming a wizard is the magically-binding Oath, which alerts others who have taken the Oath that the wizard has taken cash for spells or item creation of above 3rd level, interfere with a creature's mind or with their soul in the afterlife, raises the dead, commits an evil act, or interferes in the affairs of kings (fights in political wars between nations, for example). Using arcane magic in political wars is akin to using NBC weapons or shooting prisoners out of hand or something like that.

Magic item purchases between private sellers can be guaranteed by Guild wizards for a few percent of the selling price.

Unusual magic item creation materials are handled in-house by churches or by the Guild. Trusted persons with a history and reputation (for bards and sorcs) are allowed access, others aren't--at least not without confirmation.

A fighter who wants his handy longsword +2 turned into a longsword +3 spends 10,000 gp with his local enchanter. Why? For that much money he can hire a unit of heavy calvalry for the year, with enough left over for a square of archers. That'd probably put more of a hurt on his foes, don't you think?

IMC, most mercenaries don't go into dungeons (and horses don't fit in dungeons well either). That's adventurer work...of course, contacting a mercenary company might get you an adventuring party drawn from their healers, scouts, and fighters, if you've already got a wizard or you're dealing with a group of mercs with their own "tunnel rats" that works for politicians and destroys monsters.

 

[VirgilCaine]

(latter editions invented an infiinite horde of demons dedicated to protecting the tomb possibly to stop this otherwise excellent short cut to the end encounter).

"Invented"? They are already there in my 1e book, on the Ethereal plane if the PCs went there and tried to skip to the end.

 

[GrumpyOldMan]

The more I think about it, the less I like using cash as a balancing mechanism as levels advance. It smacks of video games where halfway through the game you're in towns where the local woodsman are chopping down trees with axes worth more than the entire village you started the game in.

The senselessness of it is most apparent in magic items. A high level mage might pay 70,000 gp for 'components' to make a magic staff. Who even has that much magic fluff stored away, and why doesn't the purchase destabilize the economy of the kingdom? For that matter, why isn't sale of magic fluff controlled by law and managed by the kingdom? That'd put a damper on those pesky necromancers and their magic items of doom.

As others have said, this has been a factor in DnD since first edition. I remember a series of articles in an early edition of White Dwarf (when it was a ‘real’ RPG magazine) about ‘the ale standard’ which calculated prices for all sorts of items using medieval sources and the price of ale. Rough and ready, but it worked. But after 25 years, and in a game so heavily based on character levels and collecting magic, you’re not going the find a simple solution.

In my view, your options are: accept it; or, find a different FRPG, one with a more realistic

 

[Andor]

Oh I know there is no fix for it in current D&D, barring an ambitious GM, and a binder full of house rules.

But when they do eventually start kicking around ideas for 4th edition I'd like to see "Level = Checkbook" on the table for cutting. After all we did away with 1 xp = 1 gp a long time ago...

 

[Crothian]

"Level = Checkbook"

What does that mean?

 

[JRR_Talking]

have played in camapigns (not D&D) where all objects have an innate magic and worth (from bits of rock to dragons eyes) and in time u can draw out the magic to make stuff

becomes horrible messy book-keeping nightmare when the party cart away literally everything they encounter as a potential component.

may seem all realistic for the PC shapers lab to be filled to the brim with bits of all plants, animals and minerals but is hard work

stick to D&D abstract /balancing to level, wealth and go with it

John

 

[Andor]

What does that mean?

It means that the 3.x D&D system has been designed with a deliberate cash value that every character is supposed to have in order to face challanges at their own level. If they don't have that much loot then they don't have the tools needed to deal with threats of the appropriate CR.

This has been around since the very beginning of D&D, yes, and was even worse in earlier editions where you couldn't even harm some monsters at all without a +x spork.

But it was never so explicitly stated that at level X you should have X(N) bling, or your PCs won't be blingtastic enough and the NPCs will tease them. I find this to be unlovely.

It's the scale that throws me off. You accumulate so much wealth, so fast, that some character concepts don't work any more. Farm boy that wants to buy a farm and retire? Done at 3rd level. Spunky street rat who wants to retire to a live of leisure in his own mansion? 6th level, if he's really into ostentation 10th level maybe.

Furthermore there is a whole host of implied setting constructs that have to be there, or the system doesn't work, or you screw the PCs. And frankly some of the stuff just doesn't make sense. Have you noticed for example that the material component for a circle of protection is 2 pounds of silver? That using those spiffy dragonshard spellbook crystals in Eberron consumes 40 pounds of silver each?

And if you do properly address issues like control of production of magic item components then you end up with constructs like VirgilCaines Guild, which sounds cool to me but kind of puts a damper on evil Wizards.

I also dislike it because it limits the adventures the GM can provide. He has to spoon feed the PCs wealth, and at a given rate. It's not just that you can't keep the PCs poor and starving, you can't flood them with wealth either. If they lay hands on a spanish treasure galleon then they'll go shopping and it'll be damm hard to give them a challange that's not either a cakewalk or a TPK.

Again, a good GM can deal, but his work is made harder by the assumptions in the system. GMing is a thankless enough job as it is, I don't like systems that make his job harder.

 

[Evilhalfling]

Ah the trick with the spanish treasure galleon is give it to them in the new world, beached or sunk. If there are no cities big enough to sell items, or components then they are unavalible.
also try the thread where one of us (croathion?) gave a low level party 30,000 gp.
They were paranoidly careful for months. "why did we get 30k, who knows we have it? how do we spend it without someone just taking it?"

Of course most of my games run cash poor, with pcs having somewhere between PC and NPC wealth.