Sooo how does this work?

[melkoriii]

OK I have a character that just got Poly Other.

In the SRD it says

<snip>
The polymorphed creature acquires the physical and natural abilities of the creature it has been polymorphed into while retaining its own mind. Physical abilities include natural size and Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores. Natural abilities include armor, attack routines (claw, claw, and bite; swoop and rake; and constriction; but not petrification, breath weapons, energy drain, energy effects, etc.), and similar gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, etc.).
</snip>

Now when it says "Natural abilities include armor, attack routines (claw, claw, and bite; swoop and rake; and constriction"

What does it mean for teh attack routines?

Say I polyed the Fighter into a Polar Bear. Polar Bear's attack routine is:
"2 claws +13 melee, bite +8 melee"
So does that mean the fighter on a full attack action gets 3 attacks just like a real Polar Bear?

How does the fighters BAB count in all this?

What about things like a Crocodile's Improved Grab? Or a Lion's Pounce and Rake? or a Giant Squid's Improved Grab, Constrict and Ink Cloud?

How can I tell what would come with the form and what would not?

 

[Voadam]

Poly other and Poly Self have been heavily errata'd in Tome and Blood and in Dragon, I don't have a link for it but check which version your DM is using first.

 

[twjensen]

It's annoying.

First you have to figure out the Polar Bear's BAB. Take its total attack bonus and subtract out feats and strength. Your fighters total attack bonus will be the same, but based on his BAB instead of the bear's BAB.

At least, that's how I read it. It could also be read that you just use the bear's attack modifiers. I haven't seen a clarification.

You get all non-magical attack abilities, including pounce, rake, rend, improved grab / trip, etc. If the ability says (Ex) then you get the ability. If it says (Su) then you don't. Spells & spell-like abilities are also not granted, but those are usually pretty easy to spot.


BTW, you may *lose* con, strength or dex from being polymorphed! You get the stats of an average specimen. (IMC I've house-ruled it differently because we have a shape-shifter character, but the basic rules are easy and good enough for most campaigns)

 

[melkoriii]

Re: It's annoying.

First you have to figure out the Polar Bear's BAB. Take its total attack bonus and subtract out feats and strength. Your fighters total attack bonus will be the same, but based on his BAB instead of the bear's BAB.

So does the fighter get 2 claws and a Bite for a full attack action?
What if the fighter normaly has 4 attacks because of BAB?

You get all non-magical attack abilities, including pounce, rake, rend, improved grab / trip, etc. If the ability says (Ex) then you get the ability. If it says (Su) then you don't. Spells & spell-like abilities are also not granted, but those are usually pretty easy to spot.

So does the fighter get (Ex) Posion Immunity or (Ex) Tremmersence? What about (Ex) Acid Spreay?

 

[thundershot]

Actually, polymorph doesn't give you (Ex) abilities... That's the new version of Wildshape you're thinking of.

Now this brings me to something important... If you don't get (Ex) abilities, then how in the hell do you become a bat? Without Blindsight, a bat is useless! That would ALSO mean that a vampire, in bat form, can only see 10 feet away. Something seems wrong about that...



Chris

 

[melkoriii]

Thats what I cant figure out. If I poly someone into a octipus. They have 8 arms and if they make there save they use them just like a octipus would. BUt for some reason they cant use improved grab????!! I can see Super nataul and Magical powers not coming with the new form but you should get all (Ex) abilitys. There is not other reason to polymorph if you dont get them.

 

[hong]

The "natural ability" clause in the polymorph spell description basically refers to any ability that could conceivably be possessed by a creature in real life. This includes some, but not all, abilities that are classified as "Extraordinary". The spell gives you the target creature's natural, Extraordinary abilities, but not any other Extraordinary abilities.

Things like the bat's blindsight, the bear's improved grab and so on would count as "natural" abilities. However, a troll's regen would not.

 

[thundershot]

But where do you draw the line? If a creature has the natural ability to spew acid once every 1d4 rounds, should they have it? Biologically, the creature has the sacs that contain the acid... Or a creature who paralyzes you with a touch of their tentacle? It's supposed to be a biological thing, yet so are all (Ex) abilities. A troll's biology allows them to regenerate... etc.

Actually, the entry for Poly Other in Tome & Blood says "Natural abilities include armor, natural attacks (claw, bite, swoop, rake, and constriction; but not petrification, breath weapons, energy drain, energy effects, etc)"

THAT leads me to believe that you DO get the acid spray, or the blindsight.

But down lower, it says "The subject does not gain the supernatural abilities (such as breath weapons and gaze attacks) or the extraordinary abilities of the new creature."

It's almost contradictary... The natural attacks ARE (Ex) abilities, yet you don't get those... I'm almost tempted to just let the PC have the (Ex) abilities and see what happens. Problem is, a spellcaster turning into a Girillon will be slaughtering things with his massive STR, and almost guaranteed RENDING things every round. AND... he can still cast spells with opposable thumbs.


Chris (wondering if there's an official ruling)

 

[hong]

But where do you draw the line? If a creature has the natural ability to spew acid once every 1d4 rounds, should they have it? Biologically, the creature has the sacs that contain the acid... Or a creature who paralyzes you with a touch of their tentacle? It's supposed to be a biological thing, yet so are all (Ex) abilities. A troll's biology allows them to regenerate... etc.

This is where you use that oft-neglected portion of your brain labeled "DM'S JUDGEMENT" to decide. Are there any trolls in real life?[*] Is there such a thing as regen in real life? What is the correct conclusion?


[*] Don't answer that question.

 

[melkoriii]

So Basicly, you get the (Ex) powers that could happen in real life kind of thing.