Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Sorcerers and Versatility
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Delandel" data-source="post: 6640703" data-attributes="member: 81364"><p>Or Bearington says, ah, fire resistant creature. Let me cast Haste on my fighter buddy and he'll just deal with it. Or if the target is pure melee, Bearington can Levitate it up into the air harmlessly while the party plays with the pinata.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It IS a pure positive. The DEGREE of how powerful it is, that's what you can debate all you want.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're missing the whole point: <strong>I copied the list spell for spell to illustrate that knowing vastly more spells and preparing more spells is not a detriment, and that portraying it as such is dishonest.</strong></p><p></p><p>Now you're just nitpicking the list.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The wizard has the always-on Find Familiar. "But Sorcerers can get it with a feat!" "But Wizards can get armor proficiency with a feat too."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The wizard gets a ward at the beginning of the day that absorbs 16 damage and can further absorb more damage by casting abjuration spells. This is worth way more than 6 hit points. And the abjuration wizard can also project this shield on allies.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, purely illustrative purpose, no need to nitpick. If I was making the Wizard I'd pick much better spells, like Flame Sphere (wizard only) instead of Scorching Ray, which is not only a superior choice but combos very well with Pyrotechnics as needed, another spell I'd take.</p><p></p><p>Also, please, please don't even try spinning the sorc-only spells as some sort of perk in favor of sorcs. Wizards get far more exclusive spells, and better ones. You know that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're underestimating rituals. They can do much more than your generic applications. Alarm can alert you a mile away. Leomund's Hut lets you set up an impenetrable defense that you can shoot arrows out of but cannot be attacked into. You have to be more creative with these things to see their value.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And we're saying that however low the chances of wizards finding new spells, the sorcerer has a far, far lower chance of learning new spells. That's supported by the PHB, by the modules.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Duh. And the point of this thread, the point of the survey results, the sentiments in multiple online communities, is that some of the balance issues are significant enough that they're causing complaints.</p><p></p><p>If it was a case of "grass being greener," as you claim it is, then we would expect a relatively equal amount of complaining about all the classes, instead of an abnormally high concentration of complaints about the beastmaster ranger, elemental monk, and sorcerer. You would expect an equal amount of Wizards complaining about be subpar to Sorcerers and vice versa. But you don't.</p><p></p><p>Yet you dismiss it as "grass being greener" and continually downplay the benefits of Wizards, despite contrary evidence. I'd love to hear all your arguments on why the beastmaster ranger is a balanced subclass and is absolutely fine. Same with elemental monk.</p><p></p><p>As I pointed out already, I think it's pretty plain to see that WotC agrees that they got the balance wrong on sorcerers in some regards. I don't think it's a coincidence that both the Favored Soul and Stormborn get bonus spells.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Delandel, post: 6640703, member: 81364"] Or Bearington says, ah, fire resistant creature. Let me cast Haste on my fighter buddy and he'll just deal with it. Or if the target is pure melee, Bearington can Levitate it up into the air harmlessly while the party plays with the pinata. It IS a pure positive. The DEGREE of how powerful it is, that's what you can debate all you want. You're missing the whole point: [B]I copied the list spell for spell to illustrate that knowing vastly more spells and preparing more spells is not a detriment, and that portraying it as such is dishonest.[/B] Now you're just nitpicking the list. The wizard has the always-on Find Familiar. "But Sorcerers can get it with a feat!" "But Wizards can get armor proficiency with a feat too." The wizard gets a ward at the beginning of the day that absorbs 16 damage and can further absorb more damage by casting abjuration spells. This is worth way more than 6 hit points. And the abjuration wizard can also project this shield on allies. Again, purely illustrative purpose, no need to nitpick. If I was making the Wizard I'd pick much better spells, like Flame Sphere (wizard only) instead of Scorching Ray, which is not only a superior choice but combos very well with Pyrotechnics as needed, another spell I'd take. Also, please, please don't even try spinning the sorc-only spells as some sort of perk in favor of sorcs. Wizards get far more exclusive spells, and better ones. You know that. You're underestimating rituals. They can do much more than your generic applications. Alarm can alert you a mile away. Leomund's Hut lets you set up an impenetrable defense that you can shoot arrows out of but cannot be attacked into. You have to be more creative with these things to see their value. And we're saying that however low the chances of wizards finding new spells, the sorcerer has a far, far lower chance of learning new spells. That's supported by the PHB, by the modules. Duh. And the point of this thread, the point of the survey results, the sentiments in multiple online communities, is that some of the balance issues are significant enough that they're causing complaints. If it was a case of "grass being greener," as you claim it is, then we would expect a relatively equal amount of complaining about all the classes, instead of an abnormally high concentration of complaints about the beastmaster ranger, elemental monk, and sorcerer. You would expect an equal amount of Wizards complaining about be subpar to Sorcerers and vice versa. But you don't. Yet you dismiss it as "grass being greener" and continually downplay the benefits of Wizards, despite contrary evidence. I'd love to hear all your arguments on why the beastmaster ranger is a balanced subclass and is absolutely fine. Same with elemental monk. As I pointed out already, I think it's pretty plain to see that WotC agrees that they got the balance wrong on sorcerers in some regards. I don't think it's a coincidence that both the Favored Soul and Stormborn get bonus spells. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Sorcerers and Versatility
Top