Sorceror Spell Selection

[Azure Trance]

SSS.

I'm a wizards guy. Over sorcerors, at least. Just something about that limited selection that makes me cringe. No variety, and not being able to learn something new when you discover that new spell in a enemy spellbook.

However I just took a relook at Monte Cooks Master of Sound in Dragon (the Epic Issue) which I think is really cool, but all of his spell-like abilities are based on Cha, which would put it in the realm of best used as Sorceror.

So, I don't know what's really the best things to select for a sorcerors spell list. I actually made a preliminary one but it's not here with me now, and I'm interested to see what you people prefer to pick over lesser ones that aren't as necessary. I'm interested in both a 'regular' spell list and a 'master of sound' one which prerequires 5 sonic/language spells when you can cast 5th level spells.

I'll have to change a lot though to get the prereqs for MoS PrC, but my generic sorceror spell list looks like this:

(MoS gives me the ability for disintegrate, dimension door, xray vision, and a 9th level spell as a one round action so I didn't include those in the spell list)

9th Level - 3 Spells
Wish
Time Stop
Meteor Shower

Would like: Mords Disjunction, Gate

8th Level - 3 Spells
Greater Planar Binding
Mind Blank
Prismatic Wall

Would like: Clone, Symbol

7th Level - 3 Spells
Teleport Without Error
Delayed Blast Fireball
Spell Turning

Would like: Limited Wish, Greater Scrying, Prismatic Ray

6th Level - 3 Spells
Globe of Invulnerability
Analyze Dweomer
Chain Lightning

Would like: True Seeing, Greater Dispelling

5th Level - 4 Spells
Permanency
Wall of Force
Cone of Cold
Cloud Kill

Would like: Contact other plane, Dismissal, hold monster

4th Level - 4 Spells
Stoneskin
Charm Monster
Ice Storm
Improved Invisibility

Would like: Shout

3rd Level - 4 Spells
Fly
Haste
Fireball
Dispel Magic

Would like: Lighning Bolt, Hold Person

2nd Level - 5 Spells
Eagles Splendor
Blur
Protection From Arrows
Melfs Acid Arrow
Daylight

Would like: ?

1st Level - 5 Spells
Magic Missile
Shield
Identify
Charm Person
Color Spray

Would like: Sleep

 

[Corwin the Confused]

SSS.

However I just took a relook at Monte Cooks Master of Sound in Dragon (the Epic Issue) which I think is really cool, but all of his spell-like abilities are based on Cha, which would put it in the realm of best used as Sorceror.

[/i]

What is the issue # for this Dragon mag?

 

[Grog]

These are just suggestions for a regular spell list, and it's only stuff out of the PH. As far as the sonic/language spells, I'm really not sure - sorry.

1st - Mage Armor would be in there somewhere unless I was creating the character at a pretty high level - it's just too useful for too long to not take it. If the sonic/language spells can be any level, I'd dump Color Spray for Comprehend Languages. Color Spray isn't really too useful anyway.

2nd - Dump Melf's; that spell is crap. I'd take See Invisibility instead.

3rd - I'd probably dump Fly for Greater Magic Weapon. If I was creating the character at a high level, I'd dump Dispel Magic instead.

4th - I can't believe you didn't take what's probably the best 4th level spell in the game - Polymorph Other. It's an instant kill spell, a disguise spell, a buff spell, and a travel spell all rolled into one. I'd lose Ice Storm in favor of PO.

5th - Definitely dump Permanency. It's the stupidest spell in 3e, because it's dispellable. I'm going to spend XP on making a spell permanent when I can just have it dispelled in the next fight? No thanks. I'd take Hold Monster instead.

6th - Analyze Dweomer for a sorceror? Seems like a waste. IMO the best 6th level spells are, in order, Mass Haste, Greater Dispelling, Chain Lightning/Disentegrate, Tenser's Transformation. I'd take some combination of those.

7th - Can't really argue with your picks here. Power Word Stun is good too.

8th - I'd take Polymorph Any Object and Horrid Wilting. The first one is incredibly useful, and the second is a good high-level damage spell. Mind Blank is good too, especially if you have allies with bad Will saves.

9th - I wouldn't take Wish. I wouldn't want to waste one of my three spell slots on a spell that costs 5,000 XP to cast. Meteor Swarm is also pretty crappy for a 9th level spell. Shapechange is great, Dominate Monster is good, and Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Prismatic Sphere, and Time Stop are also all good spells.

 

[bret]

I would suggest you look at the spell list again and focus on flexibility and long term usefulness.

Example:
2nd level Alter Self is a great Sorcerer spell. It gives you the ability to fly, swim, grow gills, etc.

1st level Color Spray and Sleep run out of power too quickly.

5th level: Buy a scroll of Permanency if you want the spell. You aren't going to use it that often, the scroll is a much better buy.


You seem to be missing all the protections against elements. You should at least take Endure Elements.

I'm just giving a few examples. Some of this would depend on if you've got a cleric in the group that you can depend on. If you do, you would want to avoid duplicating spells with the cleric.

 

[Destil]

Too many fireball clones (Fireball, Delayed Blast, Meteror Swarm). Spread out a little. Look for damage spells with more than one form, or make some of your own (Sorcerers are always more insteresting with custom spells, it suits them better than wizards, in my opinion). Take a few and rely on meta-magic to fill in the gaps, letting you take a more versitle spell list.

 

[Tzarevitch]

My opinion:

9th lvl: I'd replace Meteor Shower with Gate or Wish. You have too many fire spells on your list. Meteor Shower is also hard to target and does fixed damage. It also doesn't doo that much damage for such a high level spell except to the target of the spread.

8th lvl: Ditch Planar Binding. Use Gate iat 9th lvl nstead. You can use it in combat and it always works. Ditch Prismatic Wall. It is a lame spell. If you want a wall spell take Wall of Stone at a lower level. It is better in nearly every way because you CANT just walk through it and it is permanent. As suggested by others, Horrid Wilting and Poly Any Object are good versatile spells. I also like Otto's Irresistable Dance but you need to be prepared to go in an make a touch attack.

7th lvl: Good choices all. Personally, I like prismatic spray but that is a style thing.

6th lvl: Ditch Analyze Dwoemer. How often can you possible need to use that spell? Globe of Invulnerability? Ick! Try Disinetgrate and Greater Dispelling. Some like Tenser's Transforation, personally I don't. It is a good way for an arcane caster to die horribly, because you still can't reliably match any of the more combat-capable classes in a fight, and if it gets dispelled you are D-E-A-D M-E-A-T! I can't remember if Otiluke's Freezing Sphere comes in at this level, but that is a good spell too. No Save! Also your list is a bit fire heavy. This gives you a new damage type. True seeing would be a good choice too (I think it is a 6th lvls spell for sorcerers right?)

5th lvl: I'll jump on the Permanency bandwagon too. Permanency is a LOUSY sorcerer spell. Get it on a scroll if you really want it. It is a wizard spell not a sorcerer spell. Dump cloud kill. It is great against low level mooks but it is less than useless against anything high level. Take Dismissal instead.

4th lvl: Ditch ice storm and replace with Solid Fog. That spell is an excellent ground control spell that is hard to counter. Ice Storm does so little damage that you shouldn't bother with it.

3rd lvl and lower: all of your choices are ok in my book.

In general, beware of taking spells that you don't need to cast frequently. That is why Permanency is such a poor sorcerer spell. In general you cast it once or twice EVER. If it isn't dispelled you NEVER need to use this spell again and you have lost a high level slot forever. Ananyze Dwoemer is another one of these. Ask yourself, how often will you be casting this spell? If you have a party wizard let HIM take it, or take the item to an NPC to identify. Unlike Analyze Dwoemer the Identify spell is not a bad choice for sorcerers because it is only 1st level.

Also, beware of taking spells that don't have multiple uses or don't somehow get better with level. Cloudkill is an example of this one. Once you encounter foes who are higher level than the spell can kill the spell has almost no utility anymore and you are now stuck with one of your precious "spells known" slots wasted on a spell with little use. Note, low level spells are an exception to this because they all have such low caps.

Tzarevitch