D&D 4E "Sorry, that's only in 4E..."

[Badkarmaboy]

So I am reading up on the Death Knight ecology and realized,"Wow...they really do want to change the game so much that no one from this and past generations will ever relate to the new gamers of next generation."

Talk about splitting your fan base.

This new death knight (amongst a million other rules, mechanics, and flavor in 4E) is so different than its original, it is only a death knight in name and not tradition...

Is this what you 4E lovers really want? I can imagine someone trying an older edition game with some true, real lovers of the game and veterans in, say, a 3.5E game and going "Hey that does---" or "That did---" and someone replying,"Sorry, totally different. That's only in 4E pal. Get with the program

Now turn it the other way around,"Ok, I'm here to try 4E." and everything you once knew in 1E through 3E is being retorted by the World of Warcraft crowd playing 4E (if they manage to get into D&D and stay in it long enough, despite WotC's hopes for 9 million+ customers with D&D) telling you,"No, dude, what the hell are you talking about? You're way off."

Then you tell them,"Well it was like this in past editions."

"Well this ISN'T X Edition. I heard the rules were crap and horrible."

Seriously...9-eyed beholders, non-lawful good paladins, no energy draining undead, 25th-level spells, death knights don't have both melee power and disposable powerful Abyssal magic (which, I'm sorry, are way cooler than sword-phylactery lich wanna-bes), the entire cosmology getting warped (yet, again) and ruining the consistency in EVERYONE'S games.

You guys think this is all a GOOD thing? Seriously?

I'd love to be on whatever you guys are on that has you so hyped for 4E.

Saddest Panda award goes to...Razz!

Looking at the AD&D DK vs the 3.x DK-that's a much greater change. Did you have a Jacksonian seizure about that also?

I think giving it a melee focus that pulls it out of the Lich's sphere is ok. Of course...wow..I could give it my own Abyssal blast if I felt a hankerin'.

That was hard.

 

[Pale]

Ummm.. there were non-Lawful Good Paladins in 1E. I can dig out my Dragon Magazine with the article on them if you wish.

 

[Rechan]

For the sake of story I would personally like All things to stay the same. If a Death Knight did or was X in past editions it should be the same in a new edition or more.

Huh. So, if I wanted to conver the Werefox from 2nd edition Monster manual, it would have to only be able to effect human women or elves, rather than any humanoid, monstrous humanoid or giant? And it would have to have a charm aura, rather than Charm Person spell-like?

 

[Rechan]

I think giving it a melee focus that pulls it out of the Lich's sphere is ok. Of course...wow..I could give it my own Abyssal blast if I felt a hankerin'.

That was hard.

Thing of it is, at least when it comes To Me, I'm afraid of giving monsters special abilities because I don't know how that effects their CR.

 

[GAAAHHH]

So I am reading up on the Death Knight ecology and realized,"Wow...they really do want to change the game so much that no one from this and past generations will ever relate to the new gamers of next generation."

Talk about splitting your fan base.

This new death knight (amongst a million other rules, mechanics, and flavor in 4E) is so different than its original, it is only a death knight in name and not tradition...

Is this what you 4E lovers really want? I can imagine someone trying an older edition game with some true, real lovers of the game and veterans in, say, a 3.5E game and going "Hey that does---" or "That did---" and someone replying,"Sorry, totally different. That's only in 4E pal. Get with the program

Now turn it the other way around,"Ok, I'm here to try 4E." and everything you once knew in 1E through 3E is being retorted by the World of Warcraft crowd playing 4E (if they manage to get into D&D and stay in it long enough, despite WotC's hopes for 9 million+ customers with D&D) telling you,"No, dude, what the hell are you talking about? You're way off."

Then you tell them,"Well it was like this in past editions."

"Well this ISN'T X Edition. I heard the rules were crap and horrible."

Seriously...9-eyed beholders, non-lawful good paladins, no energy draining undead, 25th-level spells, death knights don't have both melee power and disposable powerful Abyssal magic (which, I'm sorry, are way cooler than sword-phylactery lich wanna-bes), the entire cosmology getting warped (yet, again) and ruining the consistency in EVERYONE'S games.

You guys think this is all a GOOD thing? Seriously?

I'd love to be on whatever you guys are on that has you so hyped for 4E.

Three words for you: Castles and Crusades.

I bought the C&C player's handbook, and I'm going to buy the 4th edition player's handbook to see which one I prefer (and which one I can find a game for).

 

[The Little Raven]

So I am reading up on the Death Knight ecology and realized,"Wow...they really do want to change the game so much that no one from this and past generations will ever relate to the new gamers of next generation."

Can you stop trying to speak for other people? You're pretty horrible at it.

Seriously...9-eyed beholders, non-lawful good paladins, no energy draining undead, 25th-level spells, death knights don't have both melee power and disposable powerful Abyssal magic (which, I'm sorry, are way cooler than sword-phylactery lich wanna-bes), the entire cosmology getting warped (yet, again) and ruining the consistency in EVERYONE'S games.

OMG. The sky just hit the ground about a hundred feet from here, Chicken Little.

(And PS, no consistency was ruined in my game, so again, your attempt to speak for everyone fails.)

I'd love to be on whatever you guys are on that has you so hyped for 4E.

Some of us don't like the same thing slightly rewritten for new editions for over 20 years. Some of us like change.

 

[Hussar]

Buzz, Y'know, I usually agree with you on a lot of things, but, this time, I gotta wonder what's the issue here?

Changing the number of eyestalks on a beholder? Who cares? So few people ever used one anyway that it doesn't matter AND if you were to ask a random hundred gamers how many stalks there were previously, I'm betting dollars to donuts they couldn't tell you. My guess is ten, but, that's just a guess.

Death Knights are pretty much the same as they've always been - honking big undead dudes. But, why oh why did they have fireball? Oh, right, because in previous editions, monster melee damage SUCKED. The only way to make these things a credible threat was to tack on a massive tactical nuclear fireball.

But, now, melee monsters rock. You can easily whack a PC with melee damage. So, guess what? You no longer need that big arsed fireball anymore. It's superfluous. We can make a fighter type that can dance with the party and be a credible challenge instead of a glass cannon.

 

[Piratecat]

Razz, last time you trolled the forum I gave you a warning. Apparently, it didn't work. Please do not post in the 4e forum again.

Folks, there's a difference between not agreeing with a new edition and creating threads that are deliberately designed to incite arguments. Know it, embrace it, study it -- and stay away from emotional rhetoric in favor of actual discussion.

As always, email me with questions or comments.

 

[Rel]

I love you Piratecat.

There. I said it.

 

[Morrus]

PC beat me to it - I was about to post the same thing. Razz, you don't like 4E, you've made sure everybody up to and including my grandmother knows it. That's fine. Don't play it; we don't mind, really, although we're all a little bored of having it rammed down our throats.

But please stop posting in the 4E forum. The whole rest of EN World is delightfully full of 3.5 discussions - there are thousands upon thousands of wonderful, lovely 3.5 threads for you to enjoy.

If you have any questions, feel free to email me, PC or another admin or moerator, but we don't expect to see you in the 4E forum again.