Souls as power and commodity

[Olive]

This is some stuff I just wrote about using larvae etc., basically using the BoVD and MotP. I'm not sure if this is the right forum for it, so move it to house rules if you like (not really House rules, cos I'm talking sabout WotC books).

Anyway, just looking for feeback. have I missed something? The conext was someone on nutkinland asking for advice on how much a soul was worth. It's a bit ranty, and i contradict myself slightly as i think it though.

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the BoVD thing is pretty wierd for souls, given that the way to actually get them is very expensive (trap the soul etc). I really like the BoVD, but don't think that part was super well implemented.

so souls aren't super useful, but they're going to be a whole lot mroe expensive that 50 gp. why? because to get a soul, you're probably going to be using trap the soul or soul bind, with a material component of 1,000gp per HD or the soul.

larvae are gonna be cheap tho, because according to the BoVD, a larvaer needs to be 'prepared' in order to be used as a material component/xp replacer etc. and prepared means soul bind/trap the soul, except for a few other magic items.

now if larvae are used as currency, then thats exactly what they are: big dead gold pieces, and 50 gp for something as common as larvae in the lower planes is not that outragously low IMHO.

so that's my take on it. the mercane can have a whole stack of larvae, which they'll trade for say Gehenean Morgouth-Iron longswords (as seen in the upcoming D&D Arms and Equipment Guide, as far as I know from the sample pages PDF which you can get by going here: http://www.alliance-games.com/gametrademagazine/index.htm) which add +4,000gp to a item. So a Genenean longsword (not masterwork) will set you back somme 4015gp, or around 81 larvae. Which doesn't actually seem to stupid to me, given that larvae are simply useless except for the fact that they're a form of wealth in the society of the lower planes.

it may be that souls can be worth more due to being holy etc, as if you use the sacrifice rules from BoVD, in order to gain dark craft xp or GP (rewards you can use for magic items) then the type of sacrifice helps with the know (rel) role that determins how many dark craft thingys you get from the act. maybe sacrifice can work differently in the lower planes, not requiring the 'preparation' of the soul through the soul bind/trap the soul spells?

of course people have to remember that a paladin, your average virgin maid etc. aren't going to be larvae. they'll be petitioners from other planes, and as such can't travel as a general rule (one thing that larvae CAN do, poor things). so you're not going to be trading in these souls mostly. Petitioners which can travel, according to the 3e MotP, are Manes (Abyss), Larvae (Hades), Lemures (9 Hells) and Lanten Archons (7 Heavens). So if you're draggin good souls around, then it's gonna be Lantern archons, and I'm sure we can figure out how thats gonna work using normal DnD rules that regard any creature.

of course you may not be using these rules, in which case, ignore what i wrote.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

The vile economy is ... odd.

I have a feeling Monte was setting prices based on how much efficacity the component gave to the spell rather than writing up a spreadsheet on supply and demand of the individual items. Frankly, since the D&D economy is wacked anyway (c.f. capital cities and number of chickens available per capita), I would just adjust the price according to what you think is right and increasing or decreasing the poetency of the given commodity.

Heck, all books have to be adjusted for the individual's campaign anyway, right?

 

[Olive]

i'm pretty much positive that monte worked out the value of souls based on game balance concerns, as he said thats what he did for other power components on his boards.

 

[The Sigil]

SHAMELESS PLUG

Frankly, since the D&D economy is wacked anyway (c.f. capital cities and number of chickens available per capita),

That's only because you're using the DMG model instead of the Enchiridion of Treasures and Objects d'Art model for your capital city.

The economic model works much better if you assume that:

C = P * ( {log(P)/log(4)} - 0.161)

Where P is population and C is the total amount of cash on hand.

You then assume that the value of the most expensive item that can be found in the community is C/10. Call this value M.

The number of a given item possessed by a given community is then M/cost. For instance, if M is 500, there will be 500/15 or 33 longswords available in the community.

You then assume that any item with a price > M might be available. The chance that it is available is equal to M/cost of item. For instance, if M is 50 and the PCs want an item that costs 200, the chance is 50/200 or 1/4 or a 25% chance of having one (and only one) available.

Number of chickens in a town of 100,000 (an enormous capital city) by these rules?

Well, let's see...

P = 100,000
C = 814,382 gp
M = 81,438 gp

Cost of a chicken = 2 cp (or 0.02 gp)

Total number of chickens: 4,071,900 - or approximately 40 chickens per capita... which is not too bad... the citizen gets to eat, on average, a little less than a whole chicken per week for a year before his chicken supply would be exhausted. Reasonable, IMO.

--The Sigil

 

[Olive]

bump.

 

[AEtherfyre]

A semi - relevant point to this discussion is that neither Trap the Soul nor Soul Bind actually consume the gem used, even though the gem is listed as a material component. It's quite possible that souls are worth only that much, if the gem can be recovered after the soul is used for whatever. Just a minor thought.

 

[HellHound]

I have a VERY different "soul economy" worked out for an upcoming (third quarter, roughly) Ambient Inc. release - "Craft of the Soul Forges" - which goes into detail on forging magic items and other stuff from souls, as well as a large collection of magic items created in this way.

 

[D-rock]

Souls could also be more or less valuable depending on whom they are from. A soul of a commoner might not produce as much energy for a infernal machine as a 25th level wizard and ect.

 

[Olive]

Souls could also be more or less valuable depending on whom they are from. A soul of a commoner might not produce as much energy for a infernal machine as a 25th level wizard and ect.

perhaps, but the way the rules work in MotP etc. suggests that petitioners forget their lives, so would probably be a soul straight off. a chapion of evil may have been made an imp or quasit anyway.