"Speaker in Dreams" is one of the twinkiest adventures ever written

[Bagpuss]

No my complaints have little to do with the magic level*, and more to do with the fact the plot is weak, the clues either don't exist or are so well hidden the players won't find them. The motivations of the NPC's are ridiculas. The NPC design is actually incorrect.

I don't have the module with me, but when I get home am more than happy to give examples with page references** as to why this module fails in so many areas.


*: Although how many how many DM's would let their players summon a Wyst for the spell level the NPC's summon it at.

**: Unless I can find something better to do with my time, which is highly probable.

 

[starkad]

Like I said before... I can't vouch for this particular module, but I have had no problem putting in their other modules... Heart of Nightfang Spire, Lord of the Iron Fortress, The Standing Stone, Bastion of Broken Souls, Forge of Fury...

In fact this is one of the only ones I have yet to use.

So if it requires that much effort.. I agree. But I generally run high magic games(there's so many monsters to choose from that throwing exotics at my PCs doesn't have them yawning, it has them going... "Oh crap what the heck is THAT???"), which my PCs really dig. I do too. Low magic is just boring to us. And not to others... Which is one of the reasons this is such a great game. It caters to so many diverse genre's of gamers.

 

[Crispy Critter]

Spoilers:

I ran Speaker for my group and all I can judge really is if they had a good time... and they sure did. Their confusion over what was going on and then slowly piecing things together was great to see as a DM.

The assassination attempt after the banquet was one of the most intense battles the group had over the course of the campaign.

One character was a Paladin of Pelor, so once Martial law was in effect in Brindinford he was a marked man. His character took over ownership of the situation after seeing his beloved temple destroyed by Hell's minions.

The look on my players' faces once they realized it was an Illithid master-minding the whole thing was priceless.

I'm a big fan of ready-made scenarios. I think the key is to find ones that fit into your campaign. There are so many out there that I find myself not having a problem discovering something that will work for my players with a small bit-o-tweaking.

 

[Gez]

You really want goofness ?

Read this fun column on WotC's site:

Elminster Speaks, issue 25 to 30, especially the 28.

Excerpt:

Things came to a head when "Gathkatra" (real name almost certainly something else), an ogre mage polymorphed into a more human semblance, decided to take up residence as chatelaine of the inn (by slaying the incumbent in an accident and then offering "herself" as replacement), doppelgangers joined the cooking staff, and finally an uniquely gifted illithid archmage (employing a spell-spun "tall human from afar" disguise, and using the name "Klondras Imdree, late of Westgate") settled in at the Wizard for a long stay. All of this caused the soothsaying Wizard Well in the basement, which then as now whispered aloud to many travelers who dared to consult it in private, much consternation, and it eventually decided to act.

The Well is in reality a female spectral harpist who in life was a dancer and Zhentil Keep courtesan by the name of Zarracee Ambroanye

So, in the same single inn of a single hamlet out in nowhere, you had 1 ogre-mage, 1 illithid, several doppelgangers, 1 ghost; as well as the more mundane Zhents, Red Wizards, and other human evil-doers.

 

[Fenes 2]

LOL. That reminds me when I had the PCs go after a magical stone stolen by agents of the cult of the dragon, Unknown to them a Red Wizard and his group were also after the stone, a group of Shar-worshipper were after the paladin of the group and a group of surface drow was hunting the group as well. It made for a nice "grand melee", with all groups going after everyone and the PCs at once in the ruins of an old keep. Construtced? Yes, but very, very fun to play out.

 

[King_Stannis]

....So, in the same single inn of a single hamlet out in nowhere, you had 1 ogre-mage, 1 illithid, several doppelgangers, 1 ghost; as well as the more mundane Zhents, Red Wizards, and other human evil-doers.

Impressive, most impressive!

Well, we all know that Ed Greenwood is the spiritual father of all things twinkish. I bow before the true master.

 

[Felon]

Felon just likes engaging in drive-by bombings.

By "bombing" do you mean that in likening D&D to a video game that I'm trolling for some sort of indignant response?

My current campaign's set in Monte Cook's Ptolus, which is where I drew the image of the imp messengers flying down the street bearing messages for golem bodyguards. If my players enjoy the setting, that's good enough for me. Then again, I enjoy video games. From the mixed comments I've read about Speaker in Dreams in this thread, I see no reason off-hand why I would refuse to run it.

I do wish that WotC had a campaign setting that catered to a more traditional version of heroic fantasy, not just the OTT magic-as-commonplace-as-technology setting that has the grandiose label "high fantasy" attached to it. But I imagine that'll come down the pipeline at some point from a third party publisher.

He does get a little sensitive when people shoot back.

I enjoy a heated debate as much as the next guy, but only if it stands a chance of going somewhere. Your notions about how disagreements should drag on and on until they become Hatsfield & McCoy style feuds seems like a fairly unproductive way to while away the time I have to play on the messageboards.

 

[hong]

By "bombing" do you mean that in likening D&D to a video game that I'm trolling for some sort of indignant response?

Well, to be precise, you said:

In short, the world of an official D&D campaign setting does not so much resemble the worlds of heroic fantasy as presented in the fictional sources that inspired D&D, but rather as it is presented in the worlds of the brainless video games that were inspired by it.

It's possible that when you write "brainless video games", you actually mean "intelligent, subtle, well-crafted, challenging works that exercise the mind and fire the imagination, such as Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal, or Planescape: Torment". If this were the case, then naturally, it could not be construed as trolling for an indignant response at all.

But I could be wrong.

Your notions about how disagreements should drag on and on until they become Hatsfield & McCoy style feuds seems like a fairly unproductive way to while away the time I have to play on the messageboards.

That's "Hatfields and McCoys".

 

[King_Stannis]

....My current campaign's set in Monte Cook's Ptolus, which is where I drew the image of the imp messengers flying down the street bearing messages for golem bodyguards. If my players enjoy the setting, that's good enough for me. Then again, I enjoy video games. From the mixed comments I've read about Speaker in Dreams in this thread, I see no reason off-hand why I would refuse to run it....

On the contrary, if you and your players dig this style - I think the adventure could be fit into Ptolus with little or no fuss.

I know Monte's view on this stuff is "why hide magic, it exists and should be used". In essence, and in the words of my good friend Teflon Billy, "magic has all the wonder of indoor plumbing".

Having Imps delivering messages is a perfect example. You might think that it is somehow more faithful and logical than I do. But while having an Imp delivering messages may have an internal logic to it, there is still no denying the fact that it in some way lessens the "awe factor", after a while.

It's all a matter of taste - i seriously doubt my players would take seriously a game where wizards leisurely fly down the street on a magic carpet while Umber Hulks dig for gold under some agreement with the crown. But then again, that's just them. YMMV.

The only time this sort of thing could possibly work for us is in Sigil, perhaps.

 

[Felon]

It's possible that when you write "brainless video games", you actually mean "intelligent, subtle, well-crafted, challenging works that exercise the mind and fire the imagination, such as Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal, or Planescape: Torment". If this were the case, then naturally, it could not be construed as trolling for an indignant response at all.

But I could be wrong.

No really "wrong" so much as "misguided". You interpreted the word "brainless" as being some sort of vicious indictment. I don't recall mentioning any specific games (because I didn't), but video games are, on the whole, just brain candy that delivers a quick rush of endorphins. Not too much emphasis on long-lasting intellectual or emotional impact. I haven't played Planescape, but Baldur's Gate certainly qualifies. It was fun, but forgettable. If I want something heady, I'll go read Bloodstone or Darkness Weaves for the 432nd time. Or better yet, one of those Frank Herbert novels that I've never gotten around to finishing.

's "Hatfields and McCoys".

Hey, I didn't know you were a spelling troll as well. Versatile fellow! Can you make sure that I spelled "endorphins" correctly? TIA!