speaking with another's familiar

[Dingleberry]

In 3.5, how can someone speak with someone else's weasel familiar? Would speak with animals work? Tongues? Would the familiar understand what someone else is saying (let's assume it's a language the familiar's master speaks) without any other magic? Any other ideas?

 

[Greenfield]

A Familiar isn't an animal, it's a Magical Beast.

At some point the Familiar gains the ability to speak with others of "its kind". At that point I'd think Speak with Animals would work.

But there's an alternative, and its sneaky.

A Familiar has every Skill point its master does. Not necessarily the same ability mods, but the actual skill points are shared.

So, did the other guy spend any points on language? The Familiar might not be physically capable of forming words, but it will understand anything said in that language, and since language always includes literacy in that tongue, it can scratch answers in the dirt.

Does that get you there?

 

[Dingleberry]

I like it, but I think it's a stretch: per the Speak Language skill description, no one has ranks in any languages; rather, instead of buying a rank, you spend the skill points and then choose a new language to speak. So the "For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks" requirement isn't met.

But let's assume it works: would you limit it to languages for which the master spent skill points to learn, or would the familiar also understand the master's racial and bonus Int languages?

 

[Greenfield]

No, I wouldn't count base or bonus languages. That would negate the level requirement for a caster to be able to speak with his/her familiar.

 

[Dingleberry]

But wouldn't the master taking a new language via the Speak Language skill at any point before 5th level also negate that requirement? I'm the DM here so it's ultimately my call, but I want to make sure it's internally consistent.

It's always bothered me that a familiar has an Int score of 6+ but can't seem to speak to *anything* (without additional magic) except its master at 5th and other animals of its former type at 7th. Presumably a master sharing comprehend languages with the familiar would enable to familiar to understand anybody else, and tongues would work if cast on the familiar or the person trying to talk to the familiar. Any other ideas?

 

[Greenfield]

But wouldn't the master taking a new language via the Speak Language skill at any point before 5th level also negate that requirement? I'm the DM here so it's ultimately my call, but I want to make sure it's internally consistent.

Not it wouldn't, at least not exactly.

The Familiar could understand the master, but still can't speak to reply, unless it's a Raven of course. The Raven can speak Common pretty much from the start.

What the Familiar would be able to do would be to *write* a response, which isn't quite the same thing.

It's always bothered me that a familiar has an Int score of 6+ but can't seem to speak to *anything* (without additional magic) except its master at 5th and other animals of its former type at 7th. Presumably a master sharing comprehend languages with the familiar would enable to familiar to understand anybody else, and tongues would work if cast on the familiar or the person trying to talk to the familiar. Any other ideas?

If it were strictly up to me, I'd allow Speak with Animals, even though the Familiar isn't technically an "animal", nor is it of animal intelligence.

Realistically, the old "What's that girl? Timmy fell down the well?" joke gets old before too long. (And Timmy really should learn to stay away from that damned well.)

 

[jefgorbach]

They'd need Speak with Animals because while its reasonable for the familiar to comprehend all of the languages its master knows, it unfortunately lacks the vocal cords necessary to speak any of them; although as Greenfield noted it SHOULD be able to scratch/write in some fashion since knowledge includes literacy.

The thing which always bothered me was the inexplicable reason as to why familiars lose the ability to communicate with others of its OWN kind until 7th level.

 

[jefgorbach]

They'd need Speak with Animals because while its reasonable for the familiar to comprehend all of the languages its master knows, it unfortunately lacks the vocal cords necessary to speak any of them; although as Greenfield noted it SHOULD be able to scratch/write in some fashion since knowledge includes literacy.

The thing which always bothered me was the inexplicable reason as to why familiars lose the ability to communicate with others of its OWN kind until 7th level.

 

[Greenfield]

Because they *aren't* of "their own kind". They're summoned creatures, magical beasts.

You don't find a Hawk and make it your Familiar any more. You use the class ability or the feat, specify the type of familiar you want, and it appears. Even if you're someplace where that animal type doesn't occur naturally.

So the cat on the wizard's shoulder or the toad in his pocket are neither a real cat nor a real toad. They're magical conjurations in the form of a cat or a toad, with some of the features of that creature.

They aren't "animals", and never were. They're "Familiar Spirits" bound into a mortal form, and thus categorized as "magical beasts".

 

[Dingleberry]

In 3.5, they certainly were normal animals. From the SRD (emphasis mine): "A familiar is a normal animal that gains new powers and becomes a magical beast when summoned to service by a sorcerer or wizard. It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but it is treated as a magical beast instead of an animal for the purpose of any effect that depends on its type. Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar."

So does everyone agree that a familiar, from day one, can understand every language its master speaks, whether spoken by its master or someone else?