Special Conversion Thread: Angels (and possibly other heavenly creatures)

[freyar]

Ok, we're in agreement.

As for HD, I figure these should be pretty high, based on the flavor (though perhaps demiurge will correct me, as he had some comment about this back when we did seraphim). The seraphim were 44HD, but maybe that's too much. We could back down near solars or something.

Might be nice to have a list of all we've converted. If I'm up late tonight, maybe I'll do that.

 

[demiurge1138]

Archangels should be low. Despite how they're referred to in popular parlance, archangels are near the bottom of the hierarchy. Seraphim and cherubim are closer in power to the popular conception of archangels.

 

[freyar]

Is that the correct interpretation that the flavor text in the original monster has taken?

 

[freyar]

Ok, here is the listing of angels, including the ones we've been converting, ordered by HD then CR. I'm leaving off weapons and SAs for ours, and I'm also "classifying" them. I didn't slot anything into the devas except for what we called devas, though. So, where should archangels fit? Are they leaders of lesser angel armies?

"Lesser" Angels:
Angel of Healing: CR 8, 7 HD, Str 10, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 17, DR 5/evil, SR 22
Agathion: CR 9, 7 HD, Str 19, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 18, Cha 17, DR 10/evil, SR 18
Light: CR 12, 10 HD, Str 1, Dex 18, Con 17, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 21, DR 10/evil, SR 22
Virtue: CR 12, 10 HD, Str 17, Dex 19, Con 20, Int 18, Wis 17, Cha 21, DR 10/evil, SR 22
Principality: CR 13, 11 HD, Str 18, Dex 17, Con 16, Int 19, Wis 19, Cha 22, DR 10/evil, SR 26

Devas:
Movanic Deva: CR 9, 6 HD, Str 17, Dex 18, Con 15, Int 17, Wis 16, Cha 18, DR 10/evil, SR 22, +1 flaming greatsword
Monadic Deva: CR 12, 10 HD, Str 20, Dex 16, Con 20, Int 17, Wis 17, Cha 19, DR 10/evil, SR 22, uncanny dodge, +3 mace of smiting
Astral Deva: CR 14, 12 HD, Str 22, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 20, DR 10/evil, SR 30, uncanny dodge, +3 heavy mace of disruption
Seraphic Deva: CR 17, 16 HD, Str 26, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 22, Wis 22, Cha 24, DR 15/evil, SR 37

"Greater" Angels:
Angel of Wrath: CR 13, 13 HD, Str 25, Dex 18, Con 20, Int 17, Wis 17, Cha 20, DR 10/evil, SR 27
Angel of Mercy: CR 15, 14 HD, Str 23, Dex 19, Con 19, Int 20, Wis 22, Cha 22, DR 10/evil, SR 30
Power: CR 15, 14 HD, Str 27, Dex 18, Con 22, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 20, DR 10/evil, SR 30
Planetar: CR 16, 14 HD, Str 25, Dex 19, Con 20, Int 22, Wis 23, Cha 22, DR 10/evil, SR 30, regen 10, +3 greatsword
Dominion: CR 18, 19 HD, Str 23, Dex 19, Con 20, Int 24, Wis 24, Cha 27, DR 15/evil, SR 31
Solar: CR 23, 22 HD, Str 28, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 23, Wis 25, Cha 25, DR 15/epic and evil, SR 32, regen 15, +5 dancing greatsword
Thrones: CR 24, 29 HD, Str 32, Dex 25, Con 24, Int 26, Wis 27, Cha 29, DR 15/epic and evil, SR 34
Ophan: CR 24, 33 HD, Str 34, Dex 25, Con 26, Int 27, Wis 28, Cha 31, DR 20/epic and evil, SR 34
Cherubim: CR 25, 36 HD, Str 36, Dex 25, Con 28, Int 28, Wis 30, Cha 32, DR 20/epic and evil, SR 38
Seraphim: CR 27, 44 HD, Str 40, Dex 25, Con 30, Int 30, Wis 32, Cha 34, DR 20/epic and evil, SR 40

 

[demiurge1138]

I'm quite alright with the archangel falling into the "lesser" category.

 

[Shade]

Freyar, you've got the planetar's HD and CR reversed.

How about we put them at the top of the "lesser" angels, and provide a wide range of advancement to account for the great generals among their caste?

 

[freyar]

That's funny, I think I copied the planetar from your list at the top of the thread. Fixed.

Putting them at the top of the lesser angels with broad advancement sounds right. Speaking of which, I'm starting to wonder if the Angels of Wrath should be lesser angels (the martial ones, to correspond to the Powers among the greater angels). That would put the Archangels at about 14HD. Sound right, or do we want to stick to 11HD but enough abilities to put them above Principalities?

 

[demiurge1138]

The archangels should be below the principalities, actually. 11 HD, aim for CR 12?

I do like the broad advancement, though.

 

[freyar]

That's fine, sure.

Can you tell me the difference between lesser angels, devas, and greater angels? Or is there not really such a distinction.

 

[Shade]

Freyar, there's no real distinction.

In 1e, you essentially had the "etars" and the devas. In 2e they mixed in what I called the "lesser" angels.

Also, the "etars" are more closely associated with their deities, while the devas are focused on specific planes.

The other angels trickled in later.

11 HD, CR 12 works.

The CR 12 monadic deva's scores are Str 20, Dex 16, Con 20, Int 17, Wis 17, Cha 19. I could see boosting Cha a bit since these guys are generally leaders.