Specialist Fighters

[CleverNickName]

There are a lot of threads out there about how to "improve" the fighter...assuming, of course, that you are of the opinion that the fighter class needs to be improved at all. Here are my two cents.

I think the best way to add complexity and flavor to the Fighter class would be to do it with his catalog of weapons and armor. After all, these two things are what have set the Fighter class apart from all the rest in all editions of the game: the Fighter is the guy who can use all the weapons and wear all the armor. So why not focus on that, and make that dynamic more important?

I think a fighter's choice of weapon and armor should matter at least as much as a wizard's choice of school, or a cleric's choice of domain. Wizards can choose to specialize in the school of Abjuration, for example, and they gain extra spells and a bonus on skill checks involving that school. Clerics gain a granted power, and can cast extra spells from a domain...and they get to pick two of them.

So what if the fighter could choose a type of weapon (say, Axes) and a type of armor (such as Light Shields) to "specialize" in. Like the cleric, he gains a special technique that only he knows...like maybe being able to use the blade of an axe as a rudimentary shield when fighting defensively. And like a wizard, it grants him extra spel--er, maneuvers, in combat that only an Axe Specialist would know: stuff like spinning leg sweeps, bonuses against Plant creatures, vorpal blows, and so forth.

These techniques and maneuvers will be different for each weapon type...a fighter who specializes in Hammers would have a completely different technique, and completely different maneuvers, than a fighter who specializes in Hammers or Swords. Same for armor.

This way, the fighter stays unique among the classes: no matter how many Weapon Proficiency feats a paladin picks up, he will not be able to learn those Fighter techniques and maneuvers...and thus, will never be able to fight like a Fighter.

And it's modular, too. Those of us who don't want mystical, wuxia-style fighters can drop the maneuvers part, and keep the granted power technique. Those who don't want mathy, stacky bonuses can drop the technique but keep the maneuvers. Some will want both (and keep both). Some will want neither (and keep neither).

Thoughts? Suggestions? Mockery?

 

[Ahnehnois]

Looks like the right approach.

 

[Yora]

Though I wouldn't tie each special attack directly to a weapon. Rather make it that they require certain types of weapons and a fighter specializing in hammers can do so by taking special attacks that can be used with hammers. But another fighter specializing in flails might also be able to take some of the same special attacks, while not having access to some others, but instead access to special attacks that the hammer-fighter can't use.

Bascially "more fighter-only feats".

 

[CM]

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This sounds just like the 4e fighter by the way--I thought I had you guys pegged.

Most fighter exploits are generic but some have specific weapon requirements. Many are generic but have greater or additional effects if a specific weapon is used.

Armor-Piercing Thrust gives additional damage with light blades or spears.
Not So Fast immobilizes the target if you have a flail or pick.
Crippling Smash knocks the target down if you have an axe, hammer, or mace.

 

[keterys]

Okay, I'll admit it...

I am _so_ tired of forced specialization in a particular weapon type. What's wrong with a fighter who has a battleaxe and finds a new magic longsword, and switches to it? Or one who carries around a few different kinds of weapons, and swaps as needed?

As a DM, it's nice not having to customize the treasure in an adventure to that extent - especially if "weird" weapons are what people use. "You find a holy avenger longsword!" "Err, nobody uses longsword. Anyone want to switch? I'm kinda committed to my spiked chain." "Sorry, all my feats improve my use of the Baalic War Shovel" "Have to use light blades to sneak attack, nope" "You know my prestige class is all about chakram bouncing"

C'mon, throw this poor guy a bone:

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I hate weapon specialization in every form. This would just expand it to include armor. Even in 1e, a +2 long sword is not as good as the normal non magical battle axe if you're specialized in it. It will just get thrown in a sack and pulled out when a golem shows up. I'd rather just work the ws bonuses into the fighter class than force a certain weapon on him.

 

[B.T.]

Yeah, I'd like to see something like this. In a perfect world, it wouldn't rely on movement in the way 4e abilities do. I've actually thought about this myself, and here is what I was thinking.

Combat Guardian
Your combat style focuses on defending your allies and crushing those who would do them harm.

Prerequisite: You must wear a shield to use this ability.

Attack: Whenever you hit with a melee attack, your enemy loses his movement for the rest of the round.

Reaction: As a reaction, whenever an enemy within your reach attacks one of your allies, you may either make a free attack against the enemy or you may inflict disadvantage on his attack roll.

Critical: Upon scoring a critical hit in melee combat, you shield bash your opponent. Rather than inflicting additional damage, you knock him to the ground.

And you could naturally have a fighting style for two-weapon fighters, two-handed fighters, duelists, and so forth.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As I've said before 'round these here parts, I like both the generalist fighter who is competent in all weapons and the specialist with a narrow range or even single weapon.

I could see specialists have benefits similar to the weapon style feats of 3.5Ed, boosting weapon die size or crit damage, etc.

Generalists, however, are a bit harder to throw a nechanical bone given the way so many people play fighters. What do you give the guy who uses everything?

 

[BobTheNob]

Okay, I'll admit it...

I am _so_ tired of forced specialization in a particular weapon type. What's wrong with a fighter who has a battleaxe and finds a new magic longsword, and switches to it? Or one who carries around a few different kinds of weapons, and swaps as needed?

As a DM, it's nice not having to customize the treasure in an adventure to that extent - especially if "weird" weapons are what people use. "You find a holy avenger longsword!" "Err, nobody uses longsword. Anyone want to switch? I'm kinda committed to my spiked chain." "Sorry, all my feats improve my use of the Baalic War Shovel" "Have to use light blades to sneak attack, nope" "You know my prestige class is all about chakram bouncing"

Yep. Exactly where Im coming from as well. Completely NOT a fan of specialization. It sounded so right when I first read it all those years ago, but play experience is as Keterys posted.

To make a distinction here though, what I dont like is feat/power/whatever selection "locking" the fighter to the weapon/armor. That said, I totally like the idea of the fighter being defined by weapon and armor selection.

"Whats the difference?" you ask. I dont like your choice of weapon being defined by a decision at level up. I like the choice of weapon as something you make during the fight.

Lets say that
1) Fighters get extra benefit based on the weapon (For instance, fighter gets a bonus receiving a Charge with a Long Spear, and a bonus with small weapons in tight spaces)
2) We have a scenario with a fighter in a corridor with a bunch of orcs barreling down on him
So he braces with the Long spear and uses it to receive the charge. Then, once the orc are on top of him, he draws the short sword for its tight space advantage.

He doesnt have to pick a feat to get the advantage...hes a fighter, he gets the advantage no matter what. The restriction isnt his feats...its the fact that you can only really have 1 (maybe 2) weapons selected at once. The benefits dont stack, they sort of side in a ready pool with only one available at a time. Let there be a fighter bonus for every darned weapon out there and let the fighter have em all.

So I dont like weapons specialization on fighters, but I LOVE fighters being able to use weapons in ways that no-one else can.

This idea can extend to armor as well with the fighter simply getting extra bonus based on whether he is using Light/Medium/Heavy/Shield choice. Again, its a one-time advantage as he can only wear one suit at a time.

 

[CleverNickName]

I am _so_ tired of forced specialization in a particular weapon type. What's wrong with a fighter who has a battleaxe and finds a new magic longsword, and switches to it?

I hate weapon specialization in every form. This would just expand it to include armor.

Generalists, however, are a bit harder to throw a nechanical bone given the way so many people play fighters. What do you give the guy who uses everything?

This is where the last part of my post comes in handy...the part about it being modular. Players who want to play a generalist-style Fighter wouldn't be obligated to choose a particular weapon to specialize in. After all, there are still wizards who choose not to specialize in a particular school of magic...they don't get the extra spells per day or the skill bonuses, but they don't necessarily suffer for it. If they do the Fighter class right, the "generalist" Fighter wouldn't suffer either.

"But the specialist wizard has restricted schools of magic!" you say? Fine, restrict certain weapons for the fighter. It isn't too far of a stretch to assume that if the fighter spends years and years of his life learning to master a particular weapon, other weapon training will have to fall by the wayside. Personally I would be against this, since specializing in one type of a weapon shouldn't make the Fighter "forget" how to wield another.

I think that people run into trouble when they associate "training" with "specialization." All fighters are trained in all weapons; specializing in one does not necessarily mean he doesn't know how to use other weapons. But to me, "specializing" in a weapon means more than just "learning how to use it effectively in combat." It means mastering it completely, eating with it and sleeping with it and bathing with it, learning everything there is to know about the weapon, and learning to do things with it that even the master warriors of legend haven't heard of. A high-level Hammer Specialist would make Thor himself rub his beard and say "Niiiiiice!"

If this is what you mean by "specializing," then the thought of a mortal being a specialist in more than one weapon becomes absurd.