Specialist mages, have they lost feeling

[Shades of Eternity]

Powerwise, they've been nerfed a bit, but is it just me but specialist mages seem to have lost something from 2nd to 3rd edition.

In many ways, the sorceror has been enroaching on their territory of this specialization.

Do you agree, and what have you guys done to get this feeling back?

As well as any specialized rules you may have created.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I do not really see that 3.0 was different from 2e in feel.

I do think that 3.5 has severely limited the practical choices for an adventuring wizard. That is not a good thing.

 

[Stalker0]

I do not really see that 3.0 was different from 2e in feel.

I do think that 3.5 has severely limited the practical choices for an adventuring wizard. That is not a good thing.

Agreed.

Also I kind of think sorcs do tend to specialize more than wizards, simply because most of the time the only spells that are good for sorcs are illusion, evocation, and enchantment., There the only ones versatile enough to be worth picking up.

 

[Shades of Eternity]

well, they kinda lost a few special abilities from the complete wizards handbooks, and the necromancer was particularly nerfed (unless you use one from another company: Green Ronin has a great black type necromancer and loved the varients in a recent dragon magazine).

What would you do to bring the schools back to make them more fun. Would it be a matter of simiply adding more intriguing color text or would you add new feats, prestige classes, revise specialists or what?

 

[The Souljourner]

I think all three arcane variants could use some spice. Probably don't need much of a power boost, but spice would be nice. They're kinda boring as is. Sure, sorcerers get the handy ability to suck less with a few more crappy weapons, and get to spend their two skill points on bluff. Whoopteefriggindoo. Specialists got a much needed balancing, but they still make sorcerers look kinda bad.

The one thing I like about sorcerers is not having to pre-plan your metamagic. Having to memorize a spell with the metamagic pretty much makes metamagic useless, because the only spells you'll ever use them on are the ones you'll *always* use them on, because it's numerically advantageous over choosing a spell of that level.

So anyway.. I like specialists for characters multiclassing into wizard. You can get 3 spells at first level, and unlike the sorcerer, they can actually be three different spells.

-The Souljourner

 

[Thaniel]

Our group has put in a rule that Specialist wizards get free Spell Focus in their chosen school. It just makes sense.

 

[Pax]

Powerwise, they've been nerfed a bit, but is it just me but specialist mages seem to have lost something from 2nd to 3rd edition.

I don't see that at all. The only thing they "lost" in comparison to 2E was the +1 increasein saving throws versus spells in their specialty, but then again, they also "lost" the -1 penalty to all other saving throws. An illusionist's Fireball is no longer any easier to save against than a generalist wiard's, aside from feats.

In many ways, the sorceror has been enroaching on their territory of this specialization.

I don't see that at all.

Also I kind of think sorcs do tend to specialize more than wizards, simply because most of the time the only spells that are good for sorcs are illusion, evocation, and enchantment., There the only ones versatile enough to be worth picking up.

I don't see that, either. Certain Illusion spells are near-indispensibly versatile in light of the Sorceror's limited repertoire (Shadow Evocation, Shdow Conjuration, and their assorted higher-level versions).

But I see no problem with playing a sorceror with NONE of Illusion, Evocation, or Enchantment. Conjuration has useable combat spells -- lower damage output than evocation, but less or no susceptibility to Spell Resistance. Necromancy has several options open to it (Spectral Hand and a near-limitless font of Vampiric Touch spells means it might prove very hard to kill - or, heck, even WOUND - the sorceror using them!). And Transmutation, well ... a Shapechange-and-Tenser's Transformation wielding Sorceror is likely to be a sight to behold, indeed!

 

[Shades of Eternity]

Actually, they've lost a great deal more then a +1/-1 to saves in the conversion from 2nd to 3rd edition.

Let's pull out my complete wizards handbook, shall we.

Abjuration: Minimum wisdom requirement, immunity to hold spells at level 17, +1 increase in armor class at level 20.

Alteration: Minimum Dex requirement, 2 additional N.W.P. at levels 17 and 20.

Conjuration/Summoning: Minimum Con Requirement, no longer requires material components to cast conjuration and summoning spells at level 17. Level 20, instant dispel of up to 10 hit dice of summoned creatures 3 times a day.

Enchantment/Charm: Minimum Cha requirement, immunity to cham spells at level 17, At level 20 special free action once per day.

(Greater) Divinition: Minimum wisdom requirement, Level 17, immunity to all forms of scrying spells, Level 19, cast a special find traps 3x a day, Level 20 Special Divinition.

Illusion: Minimum Dex requirement, +1 additional bonus to illusions at level 17, Level 20, special dispel Illusion.

(Invocation)/Evocation: Minimum Con Requirement, +1 to save vs such spells at levels 17 and 20.

Necromancy: Minimum wisdom requirement, +1 to save at level 17, special speak with dead at level 20.

********

Not even taking a look in spells and magic for this one.

There has obviously been some changes from 2nd to 3rd, mostly justified, but recently I aquired hackmaster's "Spellslinger's guide to wurld domination", and you can seriously feel the difference between the previous dnd systems and 3.0/3.5 with regard to arcane spell casting.

 

[RigaMortus]

Specialist Wizards suck... So you give up access to ALL spells from TWO schools, for the ability to cast a mere one extra spell from one specific school. Ahhh, yeah, right. That is soooo not worth it. They should at least get some sort of Spell Focus in their chosen school, or something. Maybe increased spell level in that school? Maybe they get spells 1 level earlier, but only in that school!?

Definately not worth it as is IMO...

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Specialist Wizards suck... So you give up access to ALL spells from TWO schools, for the ability to cast a mere one extra spell from one specific school. Ahhh, yeah, right. That is soooo not worth it. They should at least get some sort of Spell Focus in their chosen school, or something. Maybe increased spell level in that school? Maybe they get spells 1 level earlier, but only in that school!?

Definately not worth it as is IMO...

ditto. Though unearethed arcana seems to have some variant rules on specialists, where they may become useful or at leas tmaybe have some flavor attached to them. Its one of the few things I'm interested in, from unearthed arcana not interested enough to buy something I'll only use a small fraction of but interested in.