Spectral Hand & Invisibility & the Assassin's Death Attack...

[RigaMortus2]

If I cast Spectral Hand, then I cast Invisibility on myself, will the Spectral Hand become invisibile too?

What if I was first Invisible, then I cast Spectral Hand, would it be invisible then?

Can I make my Spectral Hand Invisible by casting Invis and touching the Spectral Hand? If so, would I have to do the 50% miss chance (since the Spectral Hand is ethereal?). Can I use the Spectral Hand to deliver a touch spell to itself?

Once I accomplish the task of making both myself and the Spectral Hand invisible, if I attack with the Spectral Hand, do I turn visible? Does the Spectral Hand turn visible? Or do we both turn visible?

Can you do a normal attack using the Spectral Hand OR is the only thing a Spectral Hand can do, is a melee touch attack via a spell you cast?

Assuming I CAN do a normal melee attack with the Spectral Hand, how much damage would it do?

Here is Spectral Hand description:

A ghostly, glowing hand shaped from your life force materializes and moves as you desire, allowing you to deliver low-level, touch range spells at a distance. On casting the spell, you lose 1d4 hit points that return when the spell ends (even if it is dispelled), but not if the hand is destroyed. (The hit points can be healed as normal.) For as long as the spell lasts, any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you cast can be delivered by the spectral hand. The spell gives you a +2 bonus on your melee touch attack roll, and attacking with the hand counts normally as an attack. The hand always strikes from your direction. The hand cannot flank targets like a creature can. After it delivers a spell, or if the hand goes beyond the spell range, goes out of your sight, the hand returns to you and hovers.
The hand is incorporeal and thus cannot be harmed by normal weapons. It has improved evasion (half damage on a failed Reflex save and no damage on a successful save), your save bonuses, and an AC of at least 22. Your Intelligence modifier applies to the hand’s AC as if it were the hand’s Dexterity modifier. The hand has 1 to 4 hit points, the same number that you lost in creating it.

Note the whole "attacking with the hand counts normally as an attack".

Can the Assassin deliver it's Death Attack via the Spectral Hand? I would think they could, as it is a melee touch attack to do so. At the very least, you might have to deliver the Death Attack via casting a touch spell through the hand...

Death Attack: If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice). While studying the victim, the assassin can undertake other actions so long as his attention stays focused on the target and the target does not detect the assassin or recognize the assassin as an enemy. If the victim of such an attack fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the assassin’s class level + the assassin’s Int modifier) against the kill effect, she dies. If the saving throw fails against the paralysis effect, the victim is rendered helpless and unable to act for 1d6 rounds plus 1 round per level of the assassin. If the victim’s saving throw succeeds, the attack is just a normal sneak attack. Once the assassin has completed the 3 rounds of study, he must make the death attack within the next 3 rounds.
If a death attack is attempted and fails (the victim makes her save) or if the assassin does not launch the attack within 3 rounds of completing the study, 3 new rounds of study are required before he can attempt another death attack.

Lastly, could one use Spiritual Weapon to deliver the Death Attack?

A weapon made of pure force springs into existence and attacks opponents at a distance, as you direct it, dealing 1d8 force damage per hit, +1 point per three caster levels (maximum +5 at 15th level). The weapon takes the shape of a weapon favored by your deity or a weapon with some spiritual significance or symbolism to you (see below) and has the same threat range and critical multipliers as a real weapon of its form. It strikes the opponent you designate, starting with one attack in the round the spell is cast and continuing each round thereafter on your turn. It uses your base attack bonus (possibly allowing it multiple attacks per round in subsequent rounds) plus your Wisdom modifier as its attack bonus. It strikes as a spell, not as a weapon, so, for example, it can damage creatures that have damage reduction. As a force effect, it can strike incorporeal creatures without the normal miss chance associated with incorporeality. The weapon always strikes from your direction. It does not get a flanking bonus or help a combatant get one. Your feats or combat actions do not affect the weapon. If the weapon goes beyond the spell range, if it goes out of your sight, or if you are not directing it, the weapon returns to you and hovers.
Each round after the first, you can use a move action to redirect the weapon to a new target. If you do not, the weapon continues to attack the previous round’s target. On any round that the weapon switches targets, it gets one attack. Subsequent rounds of attacking that target allow the weapon to make multiple attacks if your base attack bonus would allow it to. Even if the spiritual weapon is a ranged weapon, use the spell’s range, not the weapon’s normal range increment, and switching targets still is a move action.
A spiritual weapon cannot be attacked or harmed by physical attacks, but dispel magic, disintegrate, a sphere of annihilation, or a rod of cancellation affects it. A spiritual weapon’s AC against touch attacks is 12 (10 + size bonus for Tiny object).
If an attacked creature has spell resistance, you make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against that spell resistance the first time the spiritual weapon strikes it. If the weapon is successfully resisted, the spell is dispelled. If not, the weapon has its normal full effect on that creature for the duration of the spell.
The weapon that you get is often a force replica of your deity’s own personal weapon. A cleric without a deity gets a weapon based on his alignment. A neutral cleric without a deity can create a spiritual weapon of any alignment, provided he is acting at least generally in accord with that alignment at the time. The weapons associated with each alignment are as follows.
Chaos: Battleaxe
Evil: Light flail
Good: Warhammer
Law: Longsword,

THANKS!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Spiritual Weapon? Definitely not. "Your feats or combat actions do not affect the weapon." You can't Whirlwind Attack with a Spiritual Weapon; you can't Sneak Attack with a Spiritual Weapon; you can't Death Attack with a Spiritual Weapon.

With Spectral Hand, you can only use it to deliver spells. Now, this is a melee attack, but it's not as clear if it counts as an attack "with a melee weapon".

-Hyp.

 

[Methos of Aundair]

Note this particular statement as quoted by you on spectral hand:

any touch range spell of 4th level or lower that you cast can be delivered by the spectral hand.

 

[Lawmage]

Humm, invisibility for a Spectral Hand (one of my favorite spells, by the way...)

I would say generally no. If you have cast SH prior to casting Invis, the SH would no more become invisible than would your severed hand lying on the floor some distance away. Since the SH is made up of your life energy, which is seperated from the rest of you by the spell, this analogy seems apt. Likewise, if you cast Invis first and then Sh, the SH would become visible, just as would your hand were it subsequently severed. As for casting Invis on the SH after the fact, I am not sure that would be such a good idea. It seems to me that unless you could see invisible objects you would have a heck of a time controlling the SH and as a DM, I would impose some pretty heavy penalties to your attack rolls as a result. Another thing to consider is that Invis for the SH is kind of pointless because the hand glows....Sure the hand itself might vanish from view but the "ghostly blue glow" would likely draw some attention...

As for using the SH to make melee attacks, I would say no, both for the reasons people have already detailed and for some reasons they did not. For instance, the SH is incorporeal and as such has very limited interaction with the corporeal world. It can carry the "charge" of a spell, sure, but it could not carry a weapon (excepting perhaps a ghost touch weapon...) Likewise, I would say that the incorporeal hand lacks the mass or force to actually inflict any harm or to wield a weapon.

Anyway, just some comments, YMMV

 

[Majere]

A Spectral hand allows you to deliver touch ranges spells at a distance.

It is neither a creature nor an object so I do not believe it is a valid target for invisibility.
Spectral hands deliver touch spells, they do not deliver melee attacks with a melee weapon, so they cannot be used to deliver a death attack. However they could be used to sneak attack a flatfooted opponent in the same way a ray or touch spell could normally.
Attacking with spectral hand counts as a normal attack, thus an invisible caster using spectral hand to deliver a spell becomes visible.

I think that is all correct in the rAW

Majere

 

[Hypersmurf]

Spectral hands deliver touch spells, they do not deliver melee attacks with a melee weapon, so they cannot be used to deliver a death attack. However they could be used to sneak attack a flatfooted opponent in the same way a ray or touch spell could normally.

And the best part is that since it's explicitly a melee attack, not a ranged attack, it's not subject to the 30 foot limit.

The caster can be over a hundred feet away, at the limit of Medium range, and still deliver a sneak attack with a Spectral Hand.

-Hyp.

 

[Lawmage]

And the best part is that since it's explicitly a melee attack, not a ranged attack, it's not subject to the 30 foot limit.

The caster can be over a hundred feet away, at the limit of Medium range, and still deliver a sneak attack with a Spectral Hand.

While that might be technically correct, I think this is one of those cases where common sense must step in and send the rules lawyers packing. The rational behind the sneak attack is that the attacker has the opportunity to study the target and place the blow in a telling area. This is the same rational behind the 30 ft limit with ranged sneak attacks, namely, beyond that thirty foot limit it is not possible to accurately target the critical areas. Personally, I think this is one of those inevitable instances where the rules writers cannot possibly hope to cover every single instance but the rules lawyers can hope to, and do, discover ever gap. I would not allow the Spectral Hand to deliver a sneak attack beyond 30 ft.

 

[Hypersmurf]

While that might be technically correct...

I don't think there's a 'might' about it.

The 30 foot limit explicitly applies to ranged attacks; the text of Spectral Hand states that it's a melee attack.

As another example, a rogue shapechanged into a Kraken would be able to sneak attack with a tentacle from 60 feet away, since it's a melee attack.

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Spectral hands deliver touch spells, they do not deliver melee attacks with a melee weapon, so they cannot be used to deliver a death attack.

Majere

The Spectral Hand is no more a melee weapon than a Monk's unarmed strike, or a Ray. If you would consider a Monk's unarmed attack a "melee weapon" then the same should hold true for SH. I can understand that you may not be able to physically attack with the SH, but if you make a melee touch attack via casting a spell through the hand, then I think it would be considered a melee weapon.

Can you not "Sunder" a Spectral Hand?

 

[Bauglir]

And the best part is that since it's explicitly a melee attack, not a ranged attack, it's not subject to the 30 foot limit.

The caster can be over a hundred feet away, at the limit of Medium range, and still deliver a sneak attack with a Spectral Hand.

-Hyp.

And can even do so through flanking.