Spectral hand question

[Hawkeye]

Not sure if this has been brought up before. but I was wondering about a use for Spectral hand that isn't explictly stated in the text, but may be implied.

Spectral hand is incoporeal and cannot be harmed by anything mundane. So I was wondeiing if a spectral hand might be able to effect an incoporeal creature, who exhibits the same properties, while ignoring the 50% miss penalty. I don't think it overpowers the spell, but I thought I would throw it out to the learned of the community.

Hawkeye

Edit for spelling

 

[Shayuri]

I suppose technically a Spectral Hand could touch an incorporeal being without suffering the 50% miss chance, sure.

Regrettably, the hand itself does no damage, nor does it directly affect the target by touching it. It serves merely as a conduit for a spell. The spell itself would still have the 50% miss chance, since it's still a corporeal effect, despite being channeled through an incorporeal vessel.

Force and abjurations notwithstanding, of course...as usual.

That's my angle anyway.

 

[Black Knight Irios]

Where is written that abjurations are not subject to this miss chance, the only things that are not subject to this miss chance I think are Force-Effects, Weapons with the Ghost-Touch enchantment and other Incorpereal Beings.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yes, but then you can deliver that touch spell so much easier, say a Cleric/Wizad(Sorceror) using the touch attack to deliver a Cure spell to undead.

Hawkeye

 

[Shayuri]

Black Knight: It seems you're correct, unless I'm missing an errata. I was confusing Incorporeal with Ethereal. My apologies.

Hawkeye: Well you can deliver it more easily in the sense that you can do it at range, and with relatively little personal risk. That's the point of the Spectral Hand spell. However, the Hand wouldn't allow you to bypass the miss chance, I don't think. The Cure spell is still a corporeal effect...it's not an "attack" that the Hand is making.

To put it another way, the Hand has no miss chance, but the spell still would.

That's my guess anyway. I haven't seen a specific ruling on it.

 

[Hawkeye]

SO using that logic Sahyrui, a ghost touch weapon that has a flaming ability would only have a normal chance to roll to hit for the blade part, but 50/50 shot of the flames harming the incoporeal creature? I think not. The Spectral hand serves as the conduit for the spell. You still have to touch the creature in question.

Hawkeye

 

[Shayuri]

Hee...actually, I probably WOULD do it that way, come to think of it. Just because the blade is "solid" to an incorporeal creature doesn't necessarily mean the flames would be.

I have a feeling this is rapidly boiling down to aesthetic differences in rules interpretations. There isn't a specific and conclusive ruling that I'm aware of, so as of this moment I don't see one opinion being innately more valid than the other.

My main caveat is that letting Spectral Hand deliver touch spells to incorporeals might be making it more powerful than it was initially intended to be (not to mention Ghost Touch).

But since I'm not really sure how powerful it was originally supposed to be, I can't back that up. *shrug* Oh well. A fun discussion while it lasted.

 

[Hawkeye]

Who said its over?

Hawkeye

 

[Metalsmith]

Who said its over?

OVER! Did somebody say Over? NOTHING IS OVER UNTILL WE DECIDE IT IS!

Was it Over when the Germans Bomed Pearl Harbor, HELL NO!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Was it Over when the Germans Bomed Pearl Harbor, HELL NO!

Uh... when was that, exactly?

-Hyp.