Speculation fun on spell progression?

[EvilDwarf]

ARGH! Trying to decipher what the new spell system might look like is giving me a headache. Anyone care to join me in attempting to crack this DC 50 Arcane puzzle?

Shelly Mazzanoble stated this in her blog about spells: "I’ll take magic missile and fireblast for my at-will powers. Oh! Burning hands for an encounter power, and, let’s see, sleep for my daily." That's at first level, five spells, 2/will, 1/encounter, 1/day.

It's also been revealed elsewhere that a wizard who has blown all the per/day will be at about 80% power.

So, what might a 5th level wizard's array look like and how would you get there?

It could be a progression like this (@will/per encounter/per day) starting at first level:

2/1/1
2/2/1
3/2/1
3/2/2
4/3/2

That would give a 5th level wizard 4/will, 3/encounter, 2/day. But, how would you also account for spell level in the mix? Right now, a 5th level wizard only gets one 3rd level spell per day, and 6 spells total, so somehow you have to put spell level into the mix.

I keep hitting a wall that's requiring some sort of three dimensional matrix that charts caster level with spell level with spell mix.

Anybody?

 

[Morrus]

I think the definition of "at will" means it ain't gonna have a finite number of uses.

 

[Raith5]

Yeah the at will and per encounter spells will have a number of choices and the per day will have a number of uses.

There was talk of siloing spells so a user does not have to choose between fireball and phantom steed for example. Also the question of how rituals relate to per day uses is important.

So my guess would be more per day spells than suggested by Evildwarf. Maybe as many as one per day spell for every level so that a 5th level caster would have 5 per day uses.

 

[Cryptos]

I think the definition of "at will" means it ain't gonna have a finite number of uses.

He's referring to spell selection (or spells known) above with his speculated chart, not spell use. That's why the columns are divided into at will / per encounter / per day. He's not saying that they'll have 5 uses of their at will ability, but instead speculating that they might have five different spells at that level that they can use at will.

A better way to state it would be: How will the spell selection progress? How many distinct spells will the wizard possess and be able to cast at level 5 in each of the categories of At Will, Per Encounter, and Per Day?

 

[Abstraction]

This is a toughie. Wizards has explicitly stated that spell levels progress at the same level as the wizard (though only up to 25). So a 10th level wizard casts 10th level spells. It has also been said/implied that only the per-day powers are actually called spells. This implies that a wizard gains a new per-day power every level in addition to any per-encounter and at-will.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I'm actually wondering something else. Shelly mentioned picking at-will, per-encounter, and per-day powers, but she doesn't mention whether these are just her "starter" spells and she can buy/find more (a la 3e wizard) or whether spells known are limited by level (a la 3e sorcerer).

I'd actually guess the latter, but do we have any confirmation?

ANYWAY, my hope is that low-level spells will actually scale to be useful at high levels. So Burning Hands and Magic Missile will still do respectable damage at 30th level, and the new powers you pick up along the way complement them. So Shelly can get Burning Hands at first level, and then Fireball at 5th level (or whenever), but Burning Hands will have scaled up to be similar in power, so they're both an equally good use of an encounter-power-slot and a combat round.

 

[Abstraction]

Wasn't there a comment buried somewhere about Wisdom might get you more Talents? Something with fighters and multi-ability dependency. Maybe her Wizard has a high Wisdom?

 

[Cryptos]

I'm actually wondering something else. Shelly mentioned picking at-will, per-encounter, and per-day powers, but she doesn't mention whether these are just her "starter" spells and she can buy/find more (a la 3e wizard) or whether spells known are limited by level (a la 3e sorcerer).

I'd actually guess the latter, but do we have any confirmation?

ANYWAY, my hope is that low-level spells will actually scale to be useful at high levels. So Burning Hands and Magic Missile will still do respectable damage at 30th level, and the new powers you pick up along the way complement them. So Shelly can get Burning Hands at first level, and then Fireball at 5th level (or whenever), but Burning Hands will have scaled up to be similar in power, so they're both an equally good use of an encounter-power-slot and a combat round.

I remember seeing some indication somewhere that your spells and abilities will be limited by level, but you can learn as many rituals as you like. There wouldn't be, say, a scroll of magic missile you could scribe and use as a per day or per encounter ability. But you could find a tome that describes the Ritual of Teleportation and recreate it whenever you have the time and resources to perform the ritual described.

The in-combat stuff would be set by your level. That includes your at will, per encounter, and per day abilities. Rituals, however, seem fair game and that's where you'd see the equivalent of scrolls and scribing spells.

 

[Sadrik]

Also, they made some general points about: It should not be that much harder to manage a high level character vs a low level character. But this probably translates into the "spells/powers/rituals" that you can use each "encounter/day" and not the number that you "know".

 

[Destil]

Honestly, I'm hoping it's more deep than that. It's been noted that wizards are more like 3E wizards than warlocks or sorcerers from 3E. To me the biggest thing that makes the class is the ability to switch your ready abilities on the fly. So I'm very much hoping that it's a bit like Arcana Unearthed where you have separate known / ready lists...