Speed buffs and Fly

FreeTheSlaves

Explorer
Here's a simple question.

Barbarian fast movement (BFM) increases speed by 10' while not heavily encumbered. Wizard casts Fly on Barbarian, giving him a 60' fly speed. Does BFM boost it to 70'?
 

Coroc

Explorer
No, because it is run / climb / swim speed based on the barbarians physical prowess, whereas the fly movement is just a skill temporary given by a spell. I mean it is not that the barbarian has to flap with his arms during the spell.
 

Shiroiken

Adventurer
RAW - it probably does, as the speed bonus and fly speed are not specified as being exclusive.

RAI - It probably shouldn't. Speed is generally referring to your walking speed, with other granted speeds are listed specifically (think of the different ways to determine AC as another example of this).

RAF - whatever floats your boat. A flying barbarian is hilarious to begin with, so...
 

Coroc

Explorer
RAW - it probably does, as the speed bonus and fly speed are not specified as being exclusive.

RAI - It probably shouldn't. Speed is generally referring to your walking speed, with other granted speeds are listed specifically (think of the different ways to determine AC as another example of this).

RAF - whatever floats your boat. A flying barbarian is hilarious to begin with, so...
... make it mandatory that the barbarian has to flap around with his arms pretending he has wings if he wants the speed boost.
:giggle:
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
No. Speed is a specific thing for normal movement. Other forms of movement, like swimming, climbing, flying, are called out separately and are different from your speed. A boost to Speed only affects that, not ither speeds.
 

dnd4vr

Adventurer
Since the Fly spell specifically states you have a Flying Speed of 60, no, the barbarian would not benefit from his class feature. Other class features or feats (like Monks or Mobility) which improve speed would also not improve the Fly speed of the Fly spell.

It is like Barkskin, which gives an AC 16 if worse than 16. Barkskin is not AC 16 + DEX mod, just 16.

Still, the idea of a frustrated, arm-flapping barbarian is hilarious! :D
 

FreeTheSlaves

Explorer
Good points all round. Thanks guys. I've ruled they stack, but the Fly spell is quite specific about the speed it grants.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
Yes. Haste doubles your speed, in all forms.
No. Haste doubles your speed, not special movement speeds. This is a bit confusing and one of the not-natural-language things, bur reread the movement section of the rules. "Speed" is specifically walking. Flying is a special movement form.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
Interestingly, the winged boots appear to work differently than the fly spell. I would rule that in those cases flying speed would be increased...
 

dnd4vr

Adventurer
No. Haste doubles your speed, not special movement speeds. This is a bit confusing and one of the not-natural-language things, bur reread the movement section of the rules. "Speed" is specifically walking. Flying is a special movement form.
Except if something swims, flies, or climbs normally, Haste affects all of those as well.

While you might think of Fly as a special movement form, it isn't included in the PHB under Special Types of Movement, which only covers Climbing, Swimming, Crawling, and Jumping.

A better argument against Haste affecting Fly is this:

General Rule: Haste doubles speed of the target. The target's speed could be walking, swimming, etc.
Specific Rule: Fly grants you a Flying Speed of 60.

However, this is all interpretation of the rules, and a table could go either direction IMO. Personally, I would be fine with either ruling.

Consider something like a Pegasus, with a Flying speed 90. Haste would make that 180, which is pretty fast (about 41 mph with move + dash).
 

FreeTheSlaves

Explorer
PHB pg190 refers to speed as a measurement of a combination of walking, swimming, climbing and jumping. No reference to flying...

I think we've hit a rule with legitimate arguments both ways.
1) Plain reading adds bonus speed on all modes. The omission of flight on pg190 simply reflects that no PHB race can fly.
2) PHB pg190 limits movement to 4 modes only. Spells like Fly are a stand alone exception, the basis being the specific rule trumps the general rule.
 

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