Speed Casting

[Scion]

Speed Casting [general]

Prerequisite: BAB 6+, Prime caster stat 17+

Benefit: In place of a full round attack action the caster may use the full round to cast as many spells as they have normal attacks plus iteritive attacks (No bonus from twf nor from spells that incease the casters BAB). The first spell is at caster level -2, the second at -4, and so on.

Special: If the caster gains an attack of opportunity, after their round of useing this feat but before their next action, they may cast a spell instead but it is at a further cumulative -2 (multiple aoo's keep gaining more penalties).


Hey all what do you think? I'm not sure if there are any class combos or whatever that could abuse this very much. It may even be too weak, but what do you all have to say?

 

[AeroDm]

I don't think that I would allow this because there is just too much potential for abuse when players start looking through suppliments and such. However, if it were in my game, each successive spell would have to be a lower level instead of just a lower caster level. Certain spells don't suffer at lower caster levels, so making them your "iterative" spells is not a penalty.

I'd consider -5 caster level (similar to -5 BAB for itera) which would also ensure that it is of a lower level than their highest. At 6 BAB they are 12th level (iirc) so they would go from a 6th level spell to a 4th level spell. That seems about right.

I still think this is a really powerful feat because it is allowing you to basically use the Quicken metamagic but possibly more often depending on how you multiclass. Moreover, even dropping the caster level by 5 isn't as severe as increasing the spell level by 4 (caster level +8).

I would also put some other sort of hindrance on the feat. Arcana Unearthed's spell templates had material components that were often expensive, or else tack on some hp/ability damage. Not sure how to balance it, but I can see how it could become very unbalanced very fast.

 

[Scion]

Thats why I put it up here how can it be abused? I've checked through a good portion of what I have and nothing really jumps out as being horribly abusive. If you are getting good attack progression then you arent getting good spells pretty much by default.

It does take the place of quicken in some ways, but then in a lot of ways quicken is already too weak anyway so not much loss there.

If you are useing offensive spells then any sort of caster level penalty turns huge quickly, with this feat you would need 2 other feats (spell penetration and greater) just to make the second spell even. For the most part you are looking at spells failing against SR a great deal more often. I think at -5 it would get relegated directly to non-combat spells immediately, which may not be a bad thing, but it seems too harsh

 

[AeroDm]

How about a Fighter 2/Wizard 8/Eldritch Knight 10

2 bab from fighter, 4 from wizard, 10 from EK = 16 BAB
Caster level = 17 (8 wizard and 9 EK)

Under your original feat I can cast a spell at 17th ,15th, 13th, and 11th level from my 16/11/6/1 iteratives. That is a 9th, 8th, 7th, and 6th level spell. My 9th level spell will be time stop...

 

[Scion]

As this is the house rules forum I will feel free to say that time stop as written can be horribly horribly overpowered no matter what you use with it. My feat here does nothing to change that, nor should it. IMC time stop gives you the rounds, but you can do nothing to effect other people, nor leave anything to start after it is over. So basically you have a few rounds to buff up. So by paying this feat you can cast a couple of extra buff spells, which are much much easier to dispel than your regular spells. What is the problem?

 

[the Jester]

Quicken spell adds four levels to the spell level. This is far, far too easy. Also, my 20th-level cleric with no Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana) could routinely toss off three spells a round while my 50th-level wizard with +125 to both is stuck at two- that doesn't make sense.

Even if you're stuck with lower level spells for the iterative castings I think there's too much potential for abuse- a high-level party can almost instantly cast all their buffing spells if they're ambushed, f'rinstance.

 

[Scion]

How about a Fighter 2/Wizard 8/Eldritch Knight 10

2 bab from fighter, 4 from wizard, 10 from EK = 16 BAB
Caster level = 17 (8 wizard and 9 EK)

Under your original feat I can cast a spell at 17th ,15th, 13th, and 11th level from my 16/11/6/1 iteratives. That is a 9th, 8th, 7th, and 6th level spell. My 9th level spell will be time stop...

Looking over this again (without the overpowered time stop spell) you have a character here who is at the pinacle of their power. If you had chosen just one level lower they would be missing an entire attack (and in this case a spell) and also be missing 9th level spells.

So this character who has gone for a very set theme has been able to pull out an interesting combination of powers and would probably be a fun character to play actually. This guy can cast 4 spells a round but any sort of spell resistance will destroy is spell casting ability. Even without this feat he still would have been able to cast 3 spells a round anyway, and at a higher caster level.

All in all this guy still doesnt look overpowered, he merely looks very focused on a certain goal. There isnt any problem with that Level 20 characters are supposed to be powerful by definition anyway. If you took this character 6 levels earlier he would be a great deal weaker.

 

[Scion]

Quicken spell adds four levels to the spell level. This is far, far too easy. Also, my 20th-level cleric with no Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana) could routinely toss off three spells a round while my 50th-level wizard with +125 to both is stuck at two- that doesn't make sense.

All this says is that the cleric tends to be more powerful than the wizard. Welcome to d&d 3rd edition. Not that this is inherantly a bad thing mind you, but clerics are incredibly powerful compared to mages even without feats.

Even if you're stuck with lower level spells for the iterative castings I think there's too much potential for abuse- a high-level party can almost instantly cast all their buffing spells if they're ambushed, f'rinstance.

What abuse? Show me a lower level character that abuses it horribly, or even at all. I want to see one! The 20th level character above doesnt even abuse it overly much, and he was built for the sole purpose of doing so, at its highest possible level, and with the perfect selection of classes.

I 'want' something to give parties the ability to buff themselves if ambushed! This spell doesnt do that very well though, perhaps I will make another feat or something along those lines. In d&d land ambushes are incredibly deadly (as they should be), but in 3.5 they got a power boost so extreme as to make it obscene. Something that helps negate that would be a Good Thing (tm). (imho of course )

 

[the Jester]

Okay, let me try to work up an alternative version I think's more balanced-

Speed Casting
You can cast spells quickly, though with a cost.
Prerequisites: Primary casting attribute 19+, Spellcraft (15 ranks), Endurance, Quicken Spell
Benefit: As a full round action, you can cast multiple spells. After you do so, you become fatigued and suffer 1d4 points of damage to your primary spellcasting attribute. (If you speed cast again, you will become exhausted.) Divide your ranks in Spellcraft by 2; treat this as your base attack bonus for figuring out how many spells you can cast (so if you have 22 ranks in Spellcraft, you can cast three spells as if your BAB was +11/6/1) and any attack rolls you must make for the spells. Also, each spell after the first has its caster level reduced by five (so a 19th-level sorcerer casts at 19th/14th/9th). This also limits the highest level spell that you can cast with that iterative spell (so the sorcerer could cast a 9th, then a 7th, then a 5th level spell with his iterative spells).


Edit: Even now I'm wary of it, and I wouldn't allow it in my game (except maybe as a one-time experiment to see how balanced it is).

 

[Phaedrus]

This diverts the thread, but if you're looking for a mechanic to cast buff spells when needed, why not a contingency spell (does one already exist?)?

8am. Get out of bedroll, kick the Fighter and tell him it's his turn to make coffee.

8:15am. Cast Contingency, then Bull's Strength (or whatever. Expeditious Retreat, Stoneskin, etc.).

1pm. Ambushed by band of ___. Trigger contingent buff spell (as a verbal free action). Kick ___ butt.


In short, why not a spell (or a feat?) that allows you to cast a spell and leave it dormant, to be triggered later by you via a free action (verbal trigger)?