Speeding up combat in 4th edition D&D (Reposted from general RPG area)
- Thread starter Lion
- Start date
Are you reading my mind? Or perhaps we just think alike!
keterys
First Post
I've suggested it on these boards before... but could just be thinking alike 
In a home rules thing I poke at sometimes, I actually changed all daily attacks to be persistent effects (like Flaming Sphere, Rages, or Rain of Steel) with that one per encounter limit. I just like the impact on lots of things (pacing, hoarding, power building)
In a home rules thing I poke at sometimes, I actually changed all daily attacks to be persistent effects (like Flaming Sphere, Rages, or Rain of Steel) with that one per encounter limit. I just like the impact on lots of things (pacing, hoarding, power building)
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
I've found that I pretty much control combat length by 2 methods. 1 is limiting people to 20 seconds to decide what to do. If they don't, then they can delay and come back but I will go on.
The second and maybe more important method is by encounter design. Don't use individual monsters higher level than the party. Brutes can go up to level+2, everything else stays strictly equal level or under (and under is better for soldiers a lot of times). Use minions freely. If they simply get slaughtered every time then have them appear in waves or have terrain that lets them get up close to the party without being easy fodder. You can overlevel minions btw as long as its not TOO much.
Basically lots of weaker monsters is faster than a few strong ones. You can tweak this with experience but never throw in higher level soldiers, they take FOREVER to kill.
Tactics can help too. Don't be timid with monsters. They should generally come right to grips with the party and even provoke OAs to go after back rank PCs. This makes the fighters happy and it keeps the combats short.
The second and maybe more important method is by encounter design. Don't use individual monsters higher level than the party. Brutes can go up to level+2, everything else stays strictly equal level or under (and under is better for soldiers a lot of times). Use minions freely. If they simply get slaughtered every time then have them appear in waves or have terrain that lets them get up close to the party without being easy fodder. You can overlevel minions btw as long as its not TOO much.
Basically lots of weaker monsters is faster than a few strong ones. You can tweak this with experience but never throw in higher level soldiers, they take FOREVER to kill.
Tactics can help too. Don't be timid with monsters. They should generally come right to grips with the party and even provoke OAs to go after back rank PCs. This makes the fighters happy and it keeps the combats short.
Just to address this quickly, I have read and follow Stalker0's anti-grind thread. For several months of our game now I use only equal level mobs and strictly avoid soldiers. n + x encounters are made by using more monsters instead of higher level monsters. I mostly use brutes, artillery, and skirmishers.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
I don't think soldiers are strictly bad, I just think they are not good as over leveled challenges in general. Of course it can vary depending on the party too.
I've used monsters of up to level+7 successfully (an Elite at that) by itself but it was a controller so the defenses were not too out of whack. I wouldn't do that often but its OK. I think at higher levels things tend to get a bit more relaxed in that sense, though you still don't want to be stacking on a lot of hit points.
There are of course a LOT of table management and such which are good speedup techniques but I think they've all been covered many times before.
I've used monsters of up to level+7 successfully (an Elite at that) by itself but it was a controller so the defenses were not too out of whack. I wouldn't do that often but its OK. I think at higher levels things tend to get a bit more relaxed in that sense, though you still don't want to be stacking on a lot of hit points.
There are of course a LOT of table management and such which are good speedup techniques but I think they've all been covered many times before.
Danceofmasks
First Post
... I speed up combat with charop.
If the party pwns most encounters in 3 rounds or less, combats don't take much realtime.
If the party pwns most encounters in 3 rounds or less, combats don't take much realtime.
Chimera
First Post
As with all previous editions, and in fact ALL games, the key is to either not play with people who pay no attention to the game until it's their turn, then drop their chin on hand to 'ponder' the situation before deciding that to do; or to not allow those people to pull that crap at your game table. Time limits are usually effective, but if you can't, then lose those chumps!
As for me, I'm done playing with people who are too busy socializing during the game, then when it's their turn, sigh heavily and reach for their books.
As for me, I'm done playing with people who are too busy socializing during the game, then when it's their turn, sigh heavily and reach for their books.
I like the more low level monsters approach, but got a few questions.
Lower level monsters have a harder time hitting PC's which seems to make fights less challenging. How do you get around this? Controller/Leaders who give bonuses can work, but you don't necessarily have access to those every combat. I sometimes fix this by using the lower level monster blocks, but increasing their attack bonus, though I'm not sure how much this impacts the difficulty of the fight. Like couple sessions ago I used some level-2 skirmishers, but gave them +2 to attacks so they behaved like equal level skirmishers for offense.
Also using more monsters on the table increases DM activation time. With 6 people at the table, you may easily end up with 10-11 standard monsters, and regardless of how fast you are, it takes time to activate them. Isn't it better to have a low level elite or two (or a few high level brutes) in most encounters to keep the activation number low?
Lower level monsters have a harder time hitting PC's which seems to make fights less challenging. How do you get around this? Controller/Leaders who give bonuses can work, but you don't necessarily have access to those every combat. I sometimes fix this by using the lower level monster blocks, but increasing their attack bonus, though I'm not sure how much this impacts the difficulty of the fight. Like couple sessions ago I used some level-2 skirmishers, but gave them +2 to attacks so they behaved like equal level skirmishers for offense.
Also using more monsters on the table increases DM activation time. With 6 people at the table, you may easily end up with 10-11 standard monsters, and regardless of how fast you are, it takes time to activate them. Isn't it better to have a low level elite or two (or a few high level brutes) in most encounters to keep the activation number low?
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Well, obviously TOO many monsters will slow things down, but I find as long as I restrict it to say 3 types of monster its not a problem. There is a bit of time involved in each monster, but unless they are all complex monsters it shouldn't be that much. If you have say an encounter with 8 minions, 3 skirmishers, and 2 artillery monsters, all of the PCs level that makes a pretty good encounter. You could up it to 5 skirmishers of level - 1 and it will still be fine. That's 15 figures but most of the minions will be dead in 2 rounds, the artillery should be simple to run, and most skirmishers aren't too complex either.
Honestly I think the more classic case where DMs toss in a higher level boss monster aren't that much faster for the DM, if at all. The boss is complex and you'd commonly see Elite boss (leader), 1 soldier, 2 skirmishers, 1 artillery or lurker. Assuming they're all level + 2 or the boss is level + 3 its going to be a tough encounter, but the DM's turn is not likely to be faster than the previous example.
To keep things down to more reasonable numbers of figures yes, you can use even say an under leveled elite or even solo. You can use waves too. A trap or two is also simple to run and gives you more oomph without actually larger numbers.
Of course I may be biased too. We play using maptool and things like init and condition tracking are just not issues, so it actually makes running 15 monsters fairly straightforward in most cases.
