D&D 5E Spell -> Counterspell -> Counterspell (from same character that casts 1st spell) - possible?

[Caliban]

Remember, it's impossible to actually counter a spell with counterspell, because if you are in range to counter them then they are necessarily in range to counter you. Instead, the point of counterspell is to make them waste their reaction, so they can't use shield that round.

It's totally possible. Only wizards, sorcerers, and warlocks have Counterspell on their spell list (and possibly high level Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster or Bard who took it with spell secrets). You can shut down a cleric, druid, or possibly a bard.

Plus a lot of monsters have innate spellcasting - and those can be counterspelled.

The other situation is having two or more spellcasters on your side with Counterspell. The enemy may counterspell your counterspell, but your buddy can in turn counterspell their counterspell.

Also, doing something to make them unable to see you makes you impossible to counterspell. (I love Staff of Swarming Insects for this reason - putting up the insect swarm isn't a spell, so can't be countered, and you can counterspell them unopposed after that.) Or be a sorcerer with Subtle spell.

In a game where arcane casters are common, counterspell tactics and strategies become highly imporant. In a game where enemy spellcasters are relatively rare...it's almost a wasted spell slot.

 

[Lanefan]

Some designers played way too much Magic: the Gathering before coming up with these rules and it clouded their thinking...or countered it.

 

[MiraMels]

Maybe, but consider: If the first counterspell-er is hidden, say by greater invisibility, I would not allow the original caster to counterspell. It makes perfect sense to me that you can't counterspell a casting you cannot see. There's also the subtle spell metamagic, which I would treat the same way.

Some might rule differently.

That's not just a good ruling, that's rules-as-written. the trigger for counterspell is "when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell"


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[lkwpeter]

Are you right? No (I think, you're kinda hard to follow).
Is it possible? Yes.

Counterspell is a reaction spell, not a bonus spell. Page 202 is irrelevant because it's not a bonus action.

You can counterspell on your turn and cast another spell just fine (yes, you can use reactions on your own turn).

The reason my post seems a bit hard to follow is that I thought, you were - in general - not allowed to cast two spells on your turn (as a Bonus Action as well as a Reaction).

My point was that - in this case - it would be possible though, because it's not one turn, but two turns.

But you are right, if you read PHB 202 so that it only concerns the combination of Bonus Action + Action you don't even have to take a closer look to the order of turns. It's just fine then.

Thanks all!

 

[schnee]

It's totally possible. Only wizards, sorcerers, and warlocks have Counterspell on their spell list (and possibly high level Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster or Bard who took it with spell secrets). You can shut down a cleric, druid, or possibly a bard.

That is SO GALLING as a divine caster.

Wizards are still 'supreme', even if only by a little. Thanks, Gary.

 

[Caliban]

That is SO GALLING as a divine caster.

Wizards are still 'supreme', even if only by a little. Thanks, Gary.

You get raise dead and healing. Suck it up!

 

[jasper]

I have seen this in Tier 2.
Npc Fireball
PC 1 Counterspell
Npc Counterspell (haa)
PC 2 Counterspell the counterspell.
It totally weird but it legal.

 

[Charles Rampant]

I did notice that when my group with no arcane caster (Paladin, Fighter, Cleric, Monk, Rogue) went into a fight against a Lich, the Cleric was basically unable to cast spells, unless he could hide behind something. It made for interesting tactics, granted.

Winning at Counterspell

The Counterspell game is won by whichever side casts Counterspell last, like musical chairs only with hideous death from fireball. Each person present who:

A) Has the spell prepared
B) Has a spell slot free to use
C) Can see the last person to cast a spell in the chain (which presents options if there are pillars or whatever to control LoS)
D) Has their reaction free (i.e. has not done an Opportunity Attack or cast Shield since the start of their last or current turn)

...can cast Counterspell, and keep the chair for their side to sit on. The first side to fail one of these conditions - running out of casters, spell slots, line of sight, or reactions - loses.

It sounds daft, and is not the most engaging contest if you've just got two wizards alone in an empty 20x20 room, but it can be pretty interesting in a more complex fight with multiple casters and complex terrain.

 

[Yunru]

That is SO GALLING as a divine caster.

Wizards are still 'supreme', even if only by a little. Thanks, Gary.

Well, you and you alone (and the Bard, but you alone) get Anti-Magic.

 

[CapnZapp]

Hey,

okay, so here we go:

NPC: Casts a spell as an action.
Character: Casts Counterspell as a reaction.
NPC: Casts Counterspell as a reaction.

Let's have a look at the PHB:

Page 202: "You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip."

So, whether casting a Counterspell in addition to another spell is possible or not seems to depends on the following questions

1. Is Counterspell cast during your own or someone else's turn?
2. Does NPC cast Counterspell within one or two turns?

1.)
Because the description of Counterspell doesn't say that you interrupt your opponent, I am quite sure that it's your own turn casting Counterspell. This is the contrary to the description of the Opportunity Attack that explicitly mentions that.

Page 195: Opportunity Attack: "The atlack interrupts the provoking creature's movement, occurring right before the creature leaves your reach."


2.)
So, because of the fact that you don't interrupt you opponent, Counterspell is casted on the creatures own turn. Furthermore, if the initial caster (NPC) tries to counterspell the Counterspell (of Character), he does this not on it's inital turn, but his next turn.

Turn 1 NPC -> Turn Character -> Turn 2 NPC


In conclusion my unterstanding is:

NPC: Casts a spell [OWN turn].
Character: Casts Counterspell [OWN turn -> because no Opportunity Attack -> no interrupting]
NPC: Casts Counterspell [2nd OWN TURN]

So, there is no restriction of casting two spells (initial spell + Counterspell), because it's not with in one, but two turns. So yes, it's possible to counterspell a Counterspell.


What do you think? Am I right?

Regards

You seem to have gotten caught up on something there, because that's not how it works...

but yes, you can counterspell someone counterspelling your spell.

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