D&D 5E Spell -> Counterspell -> Counterspell (from same character that casts 1st spell) - possible?

[Tormyr]

Or you could just abstain from casting a bonus action spell if you want to retain the ability to counterspell a possible counterspell...

In practical terms, Sorcerers can't protect their Quickened spells from Counterspell, since you aren't allowed to cast a non-cantrip spell on your own turn if you cast your spell using a bonus action.

This is probably okay. Cast the spell at regular speed if you're worried about getting counterspelled.

Why would I? Since I view counterspell as more specific than the bonus action rule, counterspell can be cast any time, including on a creature's turn when they cast both a cantrip and a bonus action.

 

[CapnZapp]

The text says you can't cast another spell (it doesn't mention casting time - action, bonus action, or reaction) on your turn, except a cantrip. Very clear

The thing that trips people up is that they look at Counterspell and go "it's a reaction, not a bonus action".

But this is beside the issue. Counterspell is not a cantrip, hence you can't cast it on your turn if you have cast a bonus action spell.

This only happens under very specific circumstances. For example
#1 a Sorcerer uses her bonus action to cast a spell (a Quickened Fireball)
#2 the enemy mage uses her reaction (on the Sorcerer's turn) to cast counterspell
#3 the Sorcerer wants to use her own reaction (still on her own turn) to cast counterspell

This (#3) is what isn't allowed.

 

[dave2008]

It isn't.

However, that is not how I feel. This isn't an issue of forum etiquette, it is how i feel about it. Neither you, nor Orcus has any authority to tell me how I should feel

It's not conceding to say (paraphrasing) "We can agree to disagree." That is attempting to defuse the argument without conceding. Conceding would be if you said, "Okay, you're right, the limitation only applies to bonus action spells unless you house-rule otherwise."

I have conceded the official rule interpretation, and that I understand it, heck I even agree with it! The only thing I haven't conceded is that everyone must see it that way, because it is so very clear. The fact is, not everyone has the same perspective (for a variety of reasons), and to suggest there is only one way to understand something (regardless if it is wrong or illogical) when at least 3 individuals on this very thread came to, at some point, a different understanding is, IMO, a little lacking...

 

[CapnZapp]

Yes, very clear. Clear that if you cast a bonus action spell you can't cast another spell.

If you cast a bonus action spell the rule limits you to cantrips for the rest of that turn of yours.

This means you can't cast Counterspell.

Sure it is a reaction, but it is also not a cantrip. You can use it once your own turn is over (to counterspell the spells of others), but not on your own turn (to counterspell somebody trying to counterspell your own spell).

 

[CapnZapp]

I can't tell. Are you arguing against something I said, or just agreeing with me very aggressively?

If you feel nothing I said differs from your own views, probably the latter

 

[CapnZapp]

Why would I? Since I view counterspell as more specific than the bonus action rule, counterspell can be cast any time, including on a creature's turn when they cast both a cantrip and a bonus action.

My reply wasn't meant to persuade you specifically from giving up a houserule you are happy with.

It was more directed to the readership in general, providing the viewpoint that the RAW might make sense after all and doesn't need changing.

 

[Yunru]

[MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION]: Umm... none of us are arguing that?

dave2008 was applying that to every spell, not just when a bonus action spell has been cast. That is what we were discussing.

 

[Tormyr]

My reply wasn't meant to persuade you specifically from giving up a houserule you are happy with.

It was more directed to the readership in general, providing the viewpoint that the RAW might make sense after all and doesn't need changing.

I don't really view it as a house rule. While bonus action casting, regardless of source, is more specific of a rule than "general" casting, counterspell is a specific spell with a specific trigger that says you can spend your reaction to cast out whenever you see someone cast a spell in range. Being more specific, it trumps the bonus action casting rules.

 

[LordEntrails]

From Sage Advice Compendium 1.14 linked previously;

Can you also cast a reaction spell on your turn? You sure can! Here’s a common way for it to happen: Cornelius the wizard is casting fireball on his turn, and his foe casts counterspell on him. Cornelius has counterspell prepared, so he uses his reaction to cast it and break his foe’s counterspell before it can stop fireball.

 

[dave2008]

[MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION]: Umm... none of us are arguing that?

dave2008 was applying that to every spell, not just when a bonus action spell has been cast. That is what we were discussing.

To be clear, that is not what I am arguing and I am not applying it to anything. The only thing I am arguing is that RAW is not crystal clear and people could (right or wrongly) and did interpret it differently.