Spell DC and LVL

[Caliban]

A typical Bbn8 has a Will save of +2 (+2 base, -1 Wis, +1 cloak).

A typical Mnk8 has a Will save of +11 (+6 base, +3 Wis, +2 cloak).

A LG halfling Brd1/Clr1/Drd1/Exp1/Mnk1/Pal1/Sor1/Wiz1 with 18 Wisdom, 20 Charisma, and a +5 cloak of resistance (93% of his/her baseline) has a Will save of +29, the best possible by that level AFAIK.

A Com8 with extremely poor rolls and ability damage has a Will save of -3 (+2 base, -5 Wis).

Let's see what we can do about the Save DC.

Human Sorcerer, 18 Charisma to start, 19 at 4th level, 20 at 8th level.

Feats:
1st: Spellcasting Prodigy (+1 Save DC to all spells), Bloodline of Fire (+2 Save DC to all [Fire] spells).
3rd: Spell Focus (+2 Save DC for one school)
6th: Greater Spell Focus (Another +2 Save DC to one School)

Spell: Level 2 Eagle's Splendor (1d4+1 enhancement bonus to charisma)

This gives us:

10 (base)
+ 5 (charisma)
+1 (spellcasting prodigy)
+2 (Bloodline of fire - fire spells only)
+2 (Spell Focus - one school only - let's pick Evocation)
+2 (Greater Spell Focus - Evocation)
+2 (Eagles Splendor on a roll of 3 or 4)
-----------------------------------------

DC 24 + spell level on fire based evocation spells.
DC 22 + spell level on all other evocation spells.
DC 20 + spell level on all non-evocation fire based spells.
DC 18 + spell level on all non-evocation non-fire based spells.

A Fireball from this guy would be Reflex save of DC 27.

Take Twin Spell at 9th, and Energy Substitution (Fire) at 12th, and he would be able to convert any energy spell to a Fire spell, and cast Twinned Snilloc's Fireball Swarm.

If you dropped Bloodline of Fire and went for Enchantment on the Spell Focus Feats, it would be a DC 25 Will Save for a hold person.

 

[ShadowMaster]

At last!

Thank you sir, this is a great answer! that's help me very much!

 

[bret]

Assume you are using Point Buy. L8 Sorcerer can have Cha 20 and may have +2 Cha item.

For a 25 point buy, not many spell casters will have an 18 attribute. Better to assume a 16 or 15, which would lower the DC by 1 or 2.

In order to get a 18 in 25 point buy, you would have something like 18, 15, 9, 8, 8, 8 for attributes. Even spreading them evenly, you are going to have only 9s and 10s for other attributes.

Up the point value a bit and you will start seeing 18s. Probably want at least 30 if not 32 points for that.

 

[Jairami]

Funky. I just posted something similar in the other thread...

10th level smackdown.

Human Sorcerer 10.

Starting CHA 18. +2 for levels, +4 for +1 buckler of command, +6 for cloak of charisma +6. CHA 30.

Feats:

1 Spellcasting Prodigy.
1 Spell Focus: Evocation
3 Spell Focus: Enchantment
6 Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
9 Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment

DC for enchantment or evocation spells

1 25
2 26
3 27
4 28
5 29

DC for feeblemind against a spellcaster

5 34

Bump these DC's as necessary with the following spells.

2nd level Enhance Magical Flow (Duration 10 min/lvl)
4th level Spell Enhancer (Free Action to Cast affects next spell)

Conceivably giving a DC 37 Will Save against an enemy spellcaster or be permanently reduced to a blithering idiot.

In any case, here's your offense.

Feeblemind. Otiluke's Resilient Sphere. Polymorph Other.

Be smart, you won't live long as an arcane spellcaster if you aren't observant. If he's wearing big armor he probably doesn't mind being slow. Encase him in a Resilient Sphere and get him out of your way.

If the target is obviously a spellcaster, feeblemind him.

If the target doesn't fit any viable description but definately isn't a warrior, polymorph him into a large mouth bass and watch him asphyxiate.

Choose your targets carefully and in order of threat to you and your party. If you choose well, and use in game common sense, you should end up out of game against his weak saving throw (or using a feeblemind which grants a bonus that could negate that strength of his).

The average bad saving throw of a CR 10 opponent is +5 to +7. Needing a natural 20 to save or be eliminated. The average good will save of a CR 10 enemy caster is +9 to +12. Still requiring a natural 20 even without the two spell enhancer spells.

What'cha think?