Spell Guidelines

[Nonlethal Force]

Is there any online or WotC source that gives the general qualities of spell level progression?

For example, something like these only much more in-depth:

1st level spells do 1d4+1 to 1d6, 2nd level spells do 1d8 to 2d6 ...
-or-
1st level spell ability damage is 1d3, 2nd level damage is 1d4+1 ...

... in addition, are there any guidelines on what levels certain affects should be able to be cast - such as flying, invisibility, planar movement, etc? I realize I can go through the PHB and count spells. i was wondering if there was a print version somewhere.

 

[Voadam]

The WotC converstion document for older edition material (found in the www.wizards.com D&D archives) had some guidelines for spell levels and damage caps. (scorching ray violates them).

 

[ZSutherland]

If they are still going with the guidelines they gave us in 3.0, a copy of Tome and Blood would still be useful in this regard. There are some damage caps in the 3.0 DMG, but otherwise the suggestion in Tome and Blood was to identify "signature spells" at each level and then compare your proposed spell to those or to compare it to spells with similar effects. For example, if a movement enhancing spell is more powerful than expeditious retreat but less powerful than fly it should probably be second level. If your spell doesn't do anything comparable to some other spells or does something that's harder to classify, you're stuck with the "signature spell routine." Is it more powerful than magic missile, mage armor, and charm person? If yes, it's higher than first level. Is it more powerful than haste, fireball, and dispel magic? If no, then it's third level or lower. Compare to second level spells to decide which of the two levels is appropriate. It's not a perfect system, but it's an acceptable rule of thumb.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

If your spell doesn't do anything comparable to some other spells or does something that's harder to classify, you're stuck with the "signature spell routine." Is it more powerful than magic missile, mage armor, and charm person? If yes, it's higher than first level. Is it more powerful than haste, fireball, and dispel magic? If no, then it's third level or lower. Compare to second level spells to decide which of the two levels is appropriate. It's not a perfect system, but it's an acceptable rule of thumb.

Actually, I have been toying with one of Monte Cooke's ideas of haveing a 20 level casting system. Stretch the current 9 levels to 20. Or ... stretch it to 18 at the very least to keep spell accuisition relatively similar.

I have also been toying further with an idea of turning the current spell system into a spell point system that allows scaling like psionics through augmentation rather than use the dice/caster level assumption of vancian system.

However, two excellent advice pieces so far. Thanks for the ideas! Any others?

 

[Rothe]

Actually, I have been toying with one of Monte Cooke's ideas of haveing a 20 level casting system. Stretch the current 9 levels to 20. Or ... stretch it to 18 at the very least to keep spell accuisition relatively similar.

I have also been toying further with an idea of turning the current spell system into a spell point system that allows scaling like psionics through augmentation rather than use the dice/caster level assumption of vancian system.

However, two excellent advice pieces so far. Thanks for the ideas! Any others?

If you are going to go with spell points, I'd suggest a mechanic that if you fail on casting the spell you take some damage related to how much power you put into it. You may also want to put a cap on how many spell points one can use to power a low level spell.

 

[ZSutherland]

Interesting project. I'd love to see it when you're finished. Tome and Blood should still be an excellent resource if you have a copy since, iirc, the author lists all the PHB signature spells for each level. Given that signature spells are supposed to be the outside of the power-curve at any given spell-level, those would be ideal starting points for your new spell levels, so the 1st level signature spells I listed earlier would be good candidates for what would become 2nd level spells.

Incidentally, have you given any consideration as to how you'll handle the summon monster and summon nature's ally spells? As a suggestion, you might think of leaving them alone (other than the numbering) but creating even numbered versions that work as the version below but have a casting time of one standard action instead of a full-round action.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Interesting project. I'd love to see it when you're finished. Tome and Blood should still be an excellent resource if you have a copy since, iirc, the author lists all the PHB signature spells for each level. Given that signature spells are supposed to be the outside of the power-curve at any given spell-level, those would be ideal starting points for your new spell levels, so the 1st level signature spells I listed earlier would be good candidates for what would become 2nd level spells.

Incidentally, have you given any consideration as to how you'll handle the summon monster and summon nature's ally spells? As a suggestion, you might think of leaving them alone (other than the numbering) but creating even numbered versions that work as the version below but have a casting time of one standard action instead of a full-round action.

Actually, to be honest, I figured the summon monster spells would be akin to the astral construct in psionics. Summon Monster is a 1st level spell. Depending on how many spell points you add to the spell, the spell scales to be able to summon more of a monster. I like this idea because it really has a flavor of being able "give up a part of yourself" to summon something more powerful.

Of course, other people will say that by taking summon monster II-IX off the spell list you really make a spellbook easier and less expensive. True. You also make the sorcerer's life easier because they only need to expend 1 known spell slot to get the benefits of 9 spells. Those are aspects I have yet to truly work through because I was looking for those base-line spells that you speak of in Tome of Blood. I appreciate the point in that general direction.

For the record, I plan to do with the cure spells what I do with the summon spells. Cure spells would augment up by something like +1d8 healing per 2 spell points (max cap of something like 10 spell points spent this way) as well as an additional augment of something like +8 (or +6) powerpoints to make it a mass equivalent spell. Like the summon would benefit the sorcerer, this cure option would benefit the favored soul.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement!