Spell like ability

[daTim]

If a monster has a spell like ability, does it have ot have the requisite ability score as if it were casting a spell? If not, then how would you determine the saving throw DC?

Example - A monster can cast fireball 1/day as a spell like ability but its Charisma is only 5. Is the DC 10 (10 + 3 spell lvl - 3 ability) or is it just 13 (10 + spell level like a wand)?

If there are any relevant pages in the DMG or MM about this I would appreciate those as well, if not, just as good! Thanks.

 

[kreynolds]

If a monster has a spell like ability, does it have ot have the requisite ability score as if it were casting a spell? If not, then how would you determine the saving throw DC?

Example - A monster can cast fireball 1/day as a spell like ability but its Charisma is only 5. Is the DC 10 (10 + 3 spell lvl - 3 ability) or is it just 13 (10 + spell level like a wand)?

The saving throw for a spell-like ability is not calculated as a wand. The formula is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature's Charisma modifier. This is stated on page 8 of the MM, third paragraph from the top, left column.

If there are any relevant pages in the DMG or MM about this I would appreciate those as well, if not, just as good! Thanks.

Actually, what I'm wondering is if there are any monsters in the MM that fit your example. Did you find one in there or in another book?

 

[CombatWombat51]

Beware certain creatures in the MM that don't follow that formula... my brain about exploded when trying to figure out the satyr

 

[daTim]

I didnt find any in the Monster Manual, I was trying to make up a semi-weak demon. It is supposed to be stupid and uncharasmatic, but can generate fireballs. I dont want to give it a high charisma just for that reason. Oh well, there is always rule 0

 

[kreynolds]

Beware certain creatures in the MM that don't follow that formula... my brain about exploded when trying to figure out the satyr

Yup. Some abilities follow the formula 10 + half hit die + Constitution modifier. The satyr doesn't seem to precisely follow either, but I have an idea as to how they figured up the DC.

Charm Person is a 2nd-level Druid spell. Fear is a 4th-level Sorcerer/Wizard spell. Sleep is a 1st-level sorcerer wizard spell. It looks like they averaged all the spells to 3rd-level, then added the Satyr's Charisma modifier, which would look like this...10 (base) + 3 (spell level) + 1 (Cha mod).

Kinda funky, but hey, not every monster is perfect.

 

[kreynolds]

I didnt find any in the Monster Manual, I was trying to make up a semi-weak demon. It is supposed to be stupid and uncharasmatic, but can generate fireballs. I dont want to give it a high charisma just for that reason. Oh well, there is always rule 0

In that case then, I would recommend that you see if you can find any monsters published by Wizards that fit your example. If you can't find any, you probably shouldn't make one. Either that, or try to justify basing the DC off of the creature's Con mod or something.

 

[Number47]

An alternative would be to have the ability not be a spell-like one. Perhaps an Extraordinary flaming missile type of ability?

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Yup. Some abilities follow the formula 10 + half hit die + Constitution modifier. The satyr doesn't seem to precisely follow either, but I have an idea as to how they figured up the DC.

Note that the satyr's ability to use pipes is not a spell-like ability, so it wouldn't be expected to follow the formula for spell-like abilities anyway.

 

[Grazzt]

In that case then, I would recommend that you see if you can find any monsters published by Wizards that fit your example. If you can't find any, you probably shouldn't make one. Either that, or try to justify basing the DC off of the creature's Con mod or something.

You could always not make it a spell-like ability. Just make it a supernatural ability. That way its based off Con (by the rules).

Fireball (Su): Once per round, a XXX can generate an effect similar to a fireball cast by a XXth-level sorcerer that deals xd6 points of fire damage. A successful Reflex save (DC xx) halves the damage.

An example of a monster that generates something similar to a spell as a supernatural ability is the Rakshasa. It detects thoughts as the spell cast by an 18th-level sorcerer, but its got it as a supernatural ability.

 

[Grazzt]

If a monster has a spell like ability, does it have ot have the requisite ability score as if it were casting a spell? If not, then how would you determine the saving throw DC?

Example - A monster can cast fireball 1/day as a spell like ability but its Charisma is only 5. Is the DC 10 (10 + 3 spell lvl - 3 ability) or is it just 13 (10 + spell level like a wand)?

If there are any relevant pages in the DMG or MM about this I would appreciate those as well, if not, just as good! Thanks.

Kreynolds has it right above where he quotes the relevant passage in the MM.

Like I gave in my example above (my other post) you could make it a SU instead of spell-like, or just give the demon a Cha of 10 or 11. That way no bonus or penalty.

Even the lowly dretch (Int 5) uses spell-like abilities and has a Cha of 11.