Spell Save DC Based on Character Level

[starwed]

Things that raise your caster level do not count.

Why not? Simply have it be max(CL, HD), and it'll never break. And casters with missing caster levels tend to be screwed enough as it is; this change could actually make them more viable.

This change, along with having all classes increase CL by 1/2, would be a good way to encourage casters to multiclass into more interesting combinations. They don't get the more powerful spells, but the spells they do have are actually useful in combat.

 

[ChampionoftheTriad]

Personally, I figure as long as it ISN'T unbalanced...then it does A LOT for the flavor of the spellcaster, as it allows them to "waste" time casting lower level spells...

 

[Ilium]

Vrecknidj: Would you allow a wizard to use one of his bonus feats for your feat? Just curious.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Vrecknidj: Would you allow a wizard to use one of his bonus feats for your feat? Just curious.

I was thinking about that as I typed my answer, and decided that I wouldn't put my thoughts into that post. But, now that you ask, I think that I would allow it, yes. I, for one, think of the Sorcerer as a wee bit tougher than the Wizard (though I'm not interested in defending that position). So, I don't think it would be outrageous to allow for this sort of thing to be taken at one of the bonus-feat-granting levels.

Dave

 

[Aus_Snow]

Something along these lines makes a lot of sense, I think.

This particular version (give or take a few house rules) works well, IME.

 

[Ilium]

I was thinking about that as I typed my answer, and decided that I wouldn't put my thoughts into that post. But, now that you ask, I think that I would allow it, yes. I, for one, think of the Sorcerer as a wee bit tougher than the Wizard (though I'm not interested in defending that position). So, I don't think it would be outrageous to allow for this sort of thing to be taken at one of the bonus-feat-granting levels.

Dave

I agree. Something like this really seems to be an appropriate use of that bonus feat.

 

[erf_beto]

The feats are a good idea, and each DM could HR it the way he wanted (like a feat to increase 1-4th spells DCs, another for 5th-7th and another for 8th-9th, or maybe just one feat if he thinks it would not break his game)

I toyed around with that idea once. Instead I opted for 1d20+Spells Level+(Int, Cha or Wis, whatever you use). Nothing that extreme. But I like it.

That made me think: why not force the caster to make a spellcasting check, instead of the victims rolling for save, as if [half caster level + ability modifier] were BAB and [Fort/Ref/Will + 10] were AC. A 'magic attack', if you will...

I think that, theme-wise, it works with what we've been trying to accomplish in this thread: it's the experience of the caster that governs the power of the spell.

There's already a variant in UA where players roll all the dice... I guess some people might have a problem with it, though. What do you think?

 

[lottrbacchus]

We used 10 + spell level + attribute modifier + 1/2 caster level for a while but then I dropped it. Why? Because it was working too much in my, the dm's, favor. My baddest baddies tend to be spell casters with high primary attributes, and so with ok base dcs already. Adding half character level on top was looking just too brutal.

 

[ChampionoftheTriad]

Well yeah...it should be +1 every 4 caster levels...that's what I was going to do in a new campaign of mine...but now I'm thinking I like the 1/2 caster level...

...incidentally, I would allow caster level boosters to work with it (like practiced spellcaster)...

 

[Plane Sailing]

I 've used a variation on this very effectively:

10 + spell level + half caster level.

the casting attribute gets taken out of the equation for save DCs (although it is still necessary for bonus spells and for being able to cast spells of a certain complexity of course).

The nice thing about this is that spell DCs grow naturally with the caster, rather than hopping up every time they are able to get a stat bump of one kind or another. It also means that an 18th level wizards charm persons are much harder to resist than a 1st level apprentices charm persons, even if the two have exactly the same intelligence.

Taking the ability bonus out of the equation is the key to keeping it balanced (e.g. this method tops out at adding +10 to save DC at 20th level, the standard method could add anything from +4 (Int 18) to +12 (Int 18 + 5 stat raises, +6 headband + 5 inherent bonuses from wishes = Int 33, with a huge cost associated)



Cheers