Spell Storing+crit?

[Hitman187]

If I have a weapon of spell storing, store a touch attack spell and then crit (if the spell is capable of critting) does it crit? Because touch attack spells can crit on a natural 20, the crit range of an unarmed attack.
Thanks in advance

 

[Tovec]

Which spell are we dealing with?
I can't think of any touch spells off the top of my head that work extra on crits.

On the primary question, yes I would say it crits when the weapon it is stored in crits. A critical represents striking a vital spot for extra damage, there is no reason it shouldn't do the same for the stored spell. I'm saying this without any official reference to rules, just my own interpretation if there are no rules on the subject.

 

[Dog Moon]

I would say no. According to my Core Rulebook, you cast the spell when you deal damage to the creature. So you crit the creature, deal a bunch of damage, and then you immediately cast the spell upon the creature. Actually, according to the wording, if you don't deal any damage to creature [such as due to DR] you can't use the spell storing and assuming you do deal damage, you then cast the spell immediately, which would require another attack roll, right, assuming the spell you stored in it required an attack roll normally? [although that seems like it would be silly, but seems like that's how it's worded unless they errata'd it]

 

[Hitman187]

Which spell are we dealing with?
I can't think of any touch spells off the top of my head that work extra on crits.

On the primary question, yes I would say it crits when the weapon it is stored in crits. A critical represents striking a vital spot for extra damage, there is no reason it shouldn't do the same for the stored spell. I'm saying this without any official reference to rules, just my own interpretation if there are no rules on the subject.

Page 184 of pathfinder CRB it talks about how you can crit with spells that require an attack (i.e. vampiric touch) so if I had a weapon of storing (or more accurately a custom weapon that cast vampiric touch on each hit) if it crits would the spell also crit

 

[paradox42]

This does look like a gray area in the rules to me. Personally, I'd rule as GM that you can indeed crit with the spell, as long as the original threat roll was a natural 20. Spells don't get threats on anything but that, so I wouldn't let you get around it by using (say) a Greatsword and getting a natural 19. But certainly, a natural 20 is a natural 20, so I'd call it silly to suggest that if the weapon crits the stored spell that you let off with the very same attack doesn't.

Rules do have to bow to logic sometimes.

 

[Hitman187]

Rules do have to bow to logic sometimes.

i agree completly with logic playing an important rule, but how much logic can you apply to a magical attack that sucks the life force from a creature

My theory of logic on the idea was, I am going to be using a rapier (kinda cheesy if the spell can crit with the weapon but I won't complain if the DM takes it away or limits it after a single combat) so a crit with a rapier would be piercing through the body to a vital organ, more sensitive/important tissue, or a vein/artery, so vampiric touch (assuming it works like a magical syringe) would be able to pull more life force from this vital area then say stabbing their thigh.

As i believe the reason spells can crit when an attack is made is because they can be focused on more vital areas, but with a weapon of more accuracy to hitting vital areas it can be focused even more directly into the vital areas?

Had the spell been an inflict wound spell it would inject the "poisonous" negative energy directly to the area.

Had the spell been shocking grasp it would directly shock the tender area with electricity causing spasms (and i can only assume much more pain) in the muscle, nervous, or circulatory system.

if your goal was to kill someone quicker would you rather shoot tazer prongs into their heart or their calf? Would you rather inject a syringe full of potassium into a major blood way or their arm?

Not trying to get aggressive with my idea just attempting to explain my view on it and looking for feedback, thanks again by the way.

 

[Nookie]

If the stored spell would normally require an attack roll to hit than you still need to roll to hit when it is released. Any attack that dose Hp damage that requires an attack roll can crit. So you could, if you stored the correct spell and were very lucky, crit once on the weapon and once on the spell.

 

[Hitman187]

If the stored spell would normally require an attack roll to hit than you still need to roll to hit when it is released. Any attack that dose Hp damage that requires an attack roll can crit. So you could, if you stored the correct spell and were very lucky, crit once on the weapon and once on the spell.

"A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Anytime the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already" (Pathfinder CRB page 472)

Spell Storing says nothing about having to roll another attack roll to hit with the spell, I believe this is because most spells with attack rolls are already touch or ranged touch attacks and if you make contact with the weapon then you have already made the contact needed for a touch attack.

 

[Nebten]

That is fine, just make sure you use that argument with your DM.

Pretty much it comes down to 2 choices:
1) Weapon hit = spell hit (along with all the benifits that come with it)
2) Weapon hit, spell goes off, roll to see if the spell hit.

While Spell Storing doesn't say anything about having to make another attack roll, the spell it self does. (look at chill touch, shocking grasp etc.).

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

Based on the wording of spell storing, it sounds like there is no miss chance for the spell (the spell goes off AFTER you hit), therefore the spell has no to hit roll.

The rule is, if you are casting a spell that does damage and requires a hit roll, it can be a critical (it's kind of a compensation for the fact that you can miss).

Since no to hit roll is required, then the spell would not qualify for a critical.


If you cast the spell BEFORE you made the attack roll with your weapon (and thus took the chance of missing with the spell), I would think it would go the other way.