Spell Turning vs Dispel Magic

[Infiniti2000]

I'm thinking of "The abjuration turns only spells that have you as a target. Effect and area spells are not affected. Spell turning also fails to stop touch range spells."

Originally (1e) I think it turned everything except area spells... Personally I think it still ought to turn effect and touch spells to remain a truly viable choice.

Unfortunately, you misremembered. First of all, spell turning was not a spell available; it was only in ring form. More importantly:

1. Spells which affect an area, and which are not cast directly at the ring wearer, are not turned by the ring.

2. Spells which are delivered by touch are not turned.

3. Magic contained in devices (...) which are triggered without spell casting are not turned.

The plus side to 1e is that it (apparently) allowed rays, magic missiles, and the like since there was really nothing so concrete as Target: creature. The down side is that it wouldn't even work against 3.x spell like abilities since they are not cast, nor will it work against most magic items. Additionally, it would rarely turn 100%, but then again as an item it worked all the time.

 

[gnfnrf]

It seems pretty obvious to me that the wording in question was put in place so that a caster wouldn't have to go through the whole routine of rolling to dispel his own spells. Since no check is needed, there must be some degree of effort required in either dispelling or preventing dispelling, and that effort is determined by the caster.

I disagree. The area dispel's "may choose to" wording takes care of the whole routine, while giving flexibility. The targeted dispel is specifically worded differently.

--
gnfnrf

 

[Plane Sailing]

Unfortunately, you misremembered. First of all, spell turning was not a spell available; it was only in ring form. More importantly:

Thanks for the update - I freely admit that I've not looked at my OD&D books for many, many years

 

[Infiniti2000]

Thanks for the update - I freely admit that I've not looked at my OD&D books for many, many years

No problem. I have my books right next to me on my bookshelf and you seemed unsure so I thought I'd double check. It's sometimes useful to go back and see how it was done in 1e (which is not OD&D). I couldn't find spell turning in the red books, though.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I couldn't find spell turning in the red books, though.

I've never had the red books, I was thinking of my OD&D supplement 1 (Greyhawk), since that was where 7/8/9th level wizard spells were introduced

 

[frankthedm]

Am I the only person who feel spell turning is painfully weak and ought to bounce cones and rays{orbs too] like the Tarrasque's carapace does??

 

[Jarrod]

Not necessarily cones, but definitely all single-target spells (even if they're rays/orbs/effects/whatever). Yup.

 

[frankthedm]

Not necessarily cones, but definitely all single-target spells (even if they're rays/orbs/effects/whatever). Yup.

The carapace also bounces lines

 

[Jarrod]

Oh, sure. I'm willing to leave the Tarrasque as an uber-spell-turner, though.

I prefer the earlier edition version: area-effect spell is not turned, single-target spell is turned. Given that the number of levels turned is truly dinky (7-10? For a 7th level spell? Meh...), it's a fair trade.

I also think that when the authors said "effect and area spells" they were _not_ thinking of the orb spells, rather something like Acid Fog.

 

[frankthedm]

For a seventh level abjuration I expect some potency, not just a "fair" trade. I like seeing attacks turned back unto the attacker.



Anyone care to playtest this version of spell turning? It came up due to this discusion.

[sblock=Bounce everything spell turning]Spell Turning v.FF
Abjuration
Level: Luck 7, Magic 7, Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Until expended or 10 min./level

Spells and spell-like effects targeted on you by others are turned back upon the original caster.

Spells you cast upon yourself are turned to a random target or fizzle if the spell can not validly target any one in range.

Touch attacks and ranged touch attacks rebound onto their casters. Use the attacker’s original attack roll to determine if they are touched.

Lines would have passed through or touched your square’s border begin counting their remaining distance in reverse, possibly running out of distance before reaching the caster it was turned back on.

[IMaGel]http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3508/bouncingballnb3.th.gif[/IMaGel] A area effect that has its point of origin as a corner of a square you occupy is automatically turned back, changing the spells point of origin to the closest corner of its caster’s square. A cone or similar spell so affected also has its direction reversed so as to include its caster. If the spell’s area still includes you after it has been turned in this manner, you are affected normally.

[IMaGel]http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7729/turnbackxj3.th.gif[/IMaGel] If spell turning has not or can not modify the spell’s point of origin, area effects that include you in their area do not affect you. The turning causes the effect to exclude you and creates a cone of the spell’s effect heading in the direction of the point of origin. The cone is as large as the area the spell had yet to cover, determined by your intersection closest to the point of origin and starting from that intersection. Thus a 50’ cone started 20’ from you when turned creates a 30’ cone aimed back towards the turned spell’s point of origin. You also provide cover rather than soft cover for others in the area effect.

Overlapping areas of a turned spell do not deal additional damage unless the spell itself has a way of doing so, example; meteor swarm.

From seven to ten (1d4+6) spell levels are affected by the turning. The exact number is rolled secretly.

When you are affected by a spell of higher level than the amount of spell turning you have left, that spell is partially turned. The subtract the amount of spell turning left from the spell level of the incoming spell, then divide the result by the spell level of the incoming spell to see what fraction of the effect gets through. For damaging spells, you and the caster each take a fraction of the damage. For nondamaging spells, each of you has a proportional chance to be affected.

If you and a spellcasting attacker are both warded by spell turning effects in operation, a resonating field is created.
Roll randomly to determine the result.

d% Effect
01-70 Spell drains away without effect.
71-80 Spell affects both of you equally at full effect.
81-97 Both turning effects are rendered nonfunctional for 1d4 minutes.
98-100 Both of you go through a rift into another plane.

Arcane Material Component
A small silver mirror.[/sblock]