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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8131171" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Yes, but this is where the "running away" part comes in. If your goal is to avoid the fight long enough to heal, and you are a back line sorcerer or wizard, then you should be able to get away from most melee threats with your movement. The counter to that being "rangeed attackers shoot the fleeing magic-user" Which leads directly into "fall prone to give disadvantage to those ranged attackers"----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------shrugI'm not sure why casting invisibility as a bonus action using quicken and then chugging a healing potion with your action is better in a tough fight. And that was the scenario I was presented with. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Your analogy is faulty, because a marathon has a set goal. If I am running a 25 km race, then I know I'm nearly done at 22 km, and barely even started at 5. DnD doesn't work that way, I have very little knowledge of how to guess how many encounters we'll have within a single adventuring day. Sometimes we get 1, sometimes we get 10. So I always have a little bit in reserve, unless the situation calls for me to splurge, because even when we think it is over, there could be another three fights coming our way.I proposed that sorcerer metamagic is useful in niche situations. you claimed I was wrong, then presented a niche situation. Whether or not it is true for all non-combat spells seems rather beside the pointAnd yes, DMs need to be careful houseruling, but I've seen this particular houserule in effect at mutliple tables, and if I as a player an aware of it, it does affect my choices in whether or not I take dual-wielding or subtle spell. Especially since, without that houserule, sorcerers become the only ones possibly capable of casting in a non-combat situation. Consider, Arcane Tricksters get the ability to cast mage hand invisibly.... but mage hand also has verbal components. What good is an invisible hand for pickpocketing if you must shout "I AM CASTING MAGIC TO MAKE A HAND" while pointing at your mark?#1 and #2 need to be considered because the conversation started with a discussion of "all sorcerer metamagic" and then you gave me "this specific combo of this metamagic and this spell". Any sorcerer who did not take subtle can't do this. And, you you allow Phantasmal Force to be an "I win" button, then that is on you, but you are okaying the sorcerer doing this and having the "god" say "That man in the robes is my chosen king, abdicate your throne to him and shower him with gold, so says I." and the king believing it and following through. That makes a level 1 spell more powerful than the level 5 Geas. Also, imagine you boss walking in, telling you something unbelievable, then you go and talk about it to him later, and he says he was never there. Going to be highly suspicious right?I played a sorcerer to 20, even with +Con Mod sorcerery points. They still never felt that cheap to me.And, look at the niches. Heighten Hold Monster? Only really giving you value if it ensures they fail, which they might not. Useful for attempting to punch through magic resistance though. Subtle Dominate Person? Same issue with subtle to begin with. Subtle Wish? Why? Seriously, what Wish would you need to cast that needs to be subtle? Unless you are trying to prevent counterspell, in which case... very very niche, since stopping a wish with counterspell either takes a 9th level slot or a check against DC 19, with a likely max of +5 to the roll. Fairly unlikely.I'll be able to tell when it makes more sense to burn everything to cast an additional fireball? Or... I won't. Because that took so many resources I didn't even use all those metamagics that are supposed to define my class. Sounds like kind of a... niche situation.</blockquote>

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