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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8133057" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Fair enoughI'm interested where some people find the authority to claim that there is no improvements needed to another person's favorite class, which they feel is weak, based on their own subjective opinion.There are many people who feel sorcerers need a boost, and have been asking WoTC for that boost. Only to be confronted time and time again by people coming it to tell them that they are wrong, the class isn't weak, they are just not playing it well enough.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Because logic chains.A -> B -> CIf a rule that is incomplete is now labeled a bad rule, and bad rules should never be published, then the system being worked on that is incomplete should never be published.But that isn't how we view them. If someone said "I've started work on this class, but I've only got 5 levels of it so far" it is not a legitimate response to say "Well, levels 6 through 20 don't exist, so this is a bad class"Being incomplete =/= "bad" it simply means incomplete.But there is an aspect you are missing here.Skills are yes/no. Everyone can do them. My barbarian can use persuasion, my cleric can steal with sleight of hand, my wizard can roll athletics. The number of proficiencies just tells me who is more likely to have a higher mod.On the other hand, there are other balancing factors for spells, like the number of spells per day.Every single first level spell caster (except warlock) gets two fist level spell slots. In fact, if you examine the chart for  Clerics, Druids, Bards, Wizards and Sorcerers you will find that their spell progression and the number of spell slots they get is identical across all the classes.All five classes get 3rd level spells at 5th level, and they get two 3rd level spell slots.That is the balance point. Wizards have 397,106,410,874,542,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 possible spell combinations (ignoring cantrips and only counting the PHB), compared to the Bard only having 3,595,067,609,875,170,000,000. But both of them have an identical number of spell slots to utilize.The designers didn't test every combination. What they did was decide that 3rd level spells should have X impact on the situation, then tried to balance it so all 3rd level spells were about equal, then limited the number of 3rd level spells that could be cast per day.Yes, wizards have more options as to what that 3rd level slot might be, but the major balancing point is that they can only have so many of those spells, not how many options they have to place in those slots.You know, that would be a good idea. In fact they did that for Tasha's. Want to know the response?"This is too powerful, sorcerers don't need more options, making them more versatile casters steps on the toes of the wizard. Sorcerers don't need more spells, they just need more metamagic options"Funny how that works out. Always seems to be that the sorcerer is stepping on the wizard.Edit: In fact, literally said in this thread last page.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'd say this is false, because the sheer constraint of the sorcerer makes it far less friendly to even small missteps in spell choice. You really need to have a high degree of system mastery to even attempt playing a sorcerer most of the time.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Funny, I seem to remember an ancient greek philosopher proposing the idea that the atom was the smallest thing in existence. And he had good reasoning too. Wonder why we now accept that there are even smaller things if you don't need evidence to prove something.For everything bolded and underlined, do you have proof?Also, you have the complete wrong idea about me, which proves you just throwing around assumptions isn't doing you any good.And we are back on this. The caster not only knew the creatures immunity, but was able to take 24 hours to counter it.I often find out about a monster's existence when we enter combat with it, so I'm really impressed how good the crystal ball of every single sorcerer player seems to be, since they can always predict with 100% accuracy the things they need for the next day.</blockquote>

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