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Spellbook questions
- Thread starter jaelis
- Start date
He's stuck with whatever daily/utility spells he had "prepared" the day he lost it, and he doesn't have access to the rituals in it.
No, Spellbook is a class feature, and you don't get class features from multiclass feats (except for the extremely limited version some of the base feats give like per-encounter sneak attack).
greatamericanfolkher
Explorer
You unfairly penalize the player for playing a wizard.
jaelis
Oh this is where the title goes?
So you'd say that you need your spellbook to change what powers you have prepared, but not to re-prepare them every day. Sounds reasonable, and is consistent with multiclassers not getting or needing a spellbook, since they never get to change what powers are prepared. But does that mean the wizard is permanently stuck with those dailies? I'd be inclined to let him create a new spell book without too much effort.
Also, I have to say I kind of like the flavor of arcane preparation, at least in modest doses. Think it would be problematic to require a spellbook to prep your dailies, with the understanding that if you lose your book you can create a new one with, say, a day's work? Guess it doesn't matter much, I'm not actively planning to take anyone's book away. I just think it's more "wizardy" if you have to carry your spellbook around and consult it fairly often.
Telémakhos
First Post
Unfair in what context? If they have their spells lost forever, that is really harsh. I would think once they bought a new book, they could then over time scribe their spells and rituals from memory (or for more "realism" with the help of another wizard, arcane library, etc.).
In the case of permanent loss, unfair unless it is shared narrative and the player wants this plot hook, etc.
In the case of cost and inconvience to the character being the "penalty", it does not seem worse than a fighter or paladin losing their armor (perhaps during a storm at sea the PCs were warned about before boarding the ship). From a cost standpoint it is more coin but of course you do not need armor to perform your powers ... you just need it to stay alive.
fissionessence
First Post
I would agree with what others have said and only let the wizard prepare spells starting on the following day as what he had prepared the day he lost the book.
Once he bought a new spellbook, I would let him relearn a lost spell once per level, in addition to what he would normally get to learn that level (if any), until he had learned enough spells as he should know for his level.
Of course, I can only imagine three scenarios in which I would take it away:
1· Minor plot point. ie the BBEG steals it, or else just some brigands. In this case, the wizard would get his book back at the end of the adventure, no biggy.
2· Major plot point. I can't think of an example necessarily, but it would undoubtedly heavily involve the wizard character and his history such that it would make a lot of sense for him to lose the book somehow. Perhaps the wizard would even knowingly make the sacrifice for some kind of effect.
3· The wizard does something really stupid to deserve it. Maybe he thinks it would be a good idea to use his book as an improvised weapon and throw it at the fire elemental as an attack. Or maybe he sells the spellbook to pay for his drug addiction.
Then I just thought of this, too: If a spellbook can be for sale, could a wizard who lost his buy someone else's? Does the wizard entry say that no one can use your spellbook but you? That would be cool to get a different spell list by trading books. This could even be a good fluffy way to trade out a bunch of PHB spells for spells from Arcane Power when it comes out.
~ fissionessence
Once he bought a new spellbook, I would let him relearn a lost spell once per level, in addition to what he would normally get to learn that level (if any), until he had learned enough spells as he should know for his level.
Of course, I can only imagine three scenarios in which I would take it away:
1· Minor plot point. ie the BBEG steals it, or else just some brigands. In this case, the wizard would get his book back at the end of the adventure, no biggy.
2· Major plot point. I can't think of an example necessarily, but it would undoubtedly heavily involve the wizard character and his history such that it would make a lot of sense for him to lose the book somehow. Perhaps the wizard would even knowingly make the sacrifice for some kind of effect.
3· The wizard does something really stupid to deserve it. Maybe he thinks it would be a good idea to use his book as an improvised weapon and throw it at the fire elemental as an attack. Or maybe he sells the spellbook to pay for his drug addiction.
Then I just thought of this, too: If a spellbook can be for sale, could a wizard who lost his buy someone else's? Does the wizard entry say that no one can use your spellbook but you? That would be cool to get a different spell list by trading books. This could even be a good fluffy way to trade out a bunch of PHB spells for spells from Arcane Power when it comes out.
~ fissionessence
greatamericanfolkher
Explorer
Unfair in what context? If they have their spells lost forever, that is really harsh. I would think once they bought a new book, they could then over time scribe their spells and rituals from memory (or for more "realism" with the help of another wizard, arcane library, etc.).
In the case of permanent loss, unfair unless it is shared narrative and the player wants this plot hook, etc.
In the case of cost and inconvience to the character being the "penalty", it does not seem worse than a fighter or paladin losing their armor (perhaps during a storm at sea the PCs were warned about before boarding the ship). From a cost standpoint it is more coin but of course you do not need armor to perform your powers ... you just need it to stay alive.
The fighter and paladin don’t lose the ability to prepare daily and utility powers if they lose their armor. Heck, even if they lose their primary weapon, unarmed is still considered an improvised weapon so they still have the option to use their powers. Sure it’s not the greatest use of a power, but a fighter can still bare hand a brute strike every day for the next week, but once the spellbook-less wizard uses their daily they’re boned until they can replace it.
greatamericanfolkher
Explorer
So you’re saying that the Wizard would have less available powers than what he should have for several levels just because the book was lost. Would you make a fighter who lost his armor only gain +1 AC a level until he was back to where he was supposed to be once he replaced it?
Telémakhos
First Post
I am going to stick to my comparison of spellbook to fighter or paladin armor. In these examples, the classes have more power flexability than the wizard, but I think they have almost no chance of fulfilling their intended role of defender until they replace their lost armor with something nearly equivalent (e.g.: plate armor being replaced by chain mail).
If we assume an out-of-the-way dungeon, both PCs either need to find something 'on the road' as a replacement or get to the end of the adventure to get back to civilization.
None of the three classes will be able to fulfill their intended roles for a while.
BASHMAN
Basic Action Games
Unfair in what context? If they have their spells lost forever, that is really harsh. I would think once they bought a new book, they could then over time scribe their spells and rituals from memory (or for more "realism" with the help of another wizard, arcane library, etc.).
In the case of permanent loss, unfair unless it is shared narrative and the player wants this plot hook, etc.
In the case of cost and inconvience to the character being the "penalty", it does not seem worse than a fighter or paladin losing their armor (perhaps during a storm at sea the PCs were warned about before boarding the ship). From a cost standpoint it is more coin but of course you do not need armor to perform your powers ... you just need it to stay alive.
That analogy is not even close to right. A fighter loses his armor... and either spends 45gp to replace it at the next town or takes armor off the next guy he kills. He can still use all his powers without the armor too. Don't forget that if he had a Shield and a decent Dex (which he likely would even with scale mail if he used a light or heavy blade) his AC would not be horrible, just sub-optimal.
Even if you took a fighter's armor, shield, AND weapons, he is STILL better off than a wizard with no spellbook. The fighter wakes up in a prison with no equipment. He picks up a bench in the jail cell and uses it as a 2H improviized weapon and brute strikes the guard to death for 3d8+STR damage. Then he takes the guards' armor, weapon, & shield for the next fight. His wizard companion, however, who assisted by mage-handing the keys and magic missiling every round for fear of losing his now even more precious encounter & daily powers is still up a certain creek without a certain impliment. Until he finds a spellbook with HIS encounter & daily spells in it-- he is screwed-- and the DM who did it to him deserves a nasty paper cut with lemon-juice on it for doing it.
