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Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8302071" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>point A (bolded above) is very far from factual. Take a <em>dagger</em> with no feats & no class abilities adding to it compared to a generic d12 cantrip.</p><p>The cantrip does </p><p>1d12 avg6.5 1-4, 2d12 avg 13 5-10, 3d12 avg 19.5 11-16 & 4d12 avg26 17+</p><p></p><p>20in a prime attribute s not a difficult benchmark t hit. Just A dagger with 20 strength will deal 1d4(avg2.5)+5 for 7.5 average damage each attack. Mot martial classes get at least a second attack at level 5 & fighters get a third/fourth at 11 & 20th. [USER=42856]@Galandris[/USER] already noted howdata shows that nearly all 5e campaigns end right around level 10. Add to that the fact that this matchup is with a higher damage cantrip that basically goes unused for resistance reasons stacked alongside a ridiculous benchmark of a strength based dagger fighter with no feats/class abilities adding to the dagger.... That matchup only gets worse when you factor in weapon & cantrip choices people actually make and start adding feats/class abilities that mostly only apply meaningfully to the weapon users. Leveled spells are often so hamstrung that consuming the spell slot resource is generally incapable of doing much more than jut catching up to at will damage under the best of conditions with good damage rolls.</p><p></p><p>With that said, lets say that you are somehow right about cantrips giving casters "roughly the equivalent of the martial character's attacks".... <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/sane-magic-item-prices.462510/post-8260051" target="_blank">Given how strongly wotc pushes against the idea that resistant to nonmagical b/p/s should ever be a meaningful factor</a>, the only characters realistically dealing half damage with any regularity are casters who are also hit by magic resistance & legendary resist. Can you show some math to support "roughly equivalent" damage from cantrips or explain just how wide the disparity would need to become in order to no longer be considered "roughly equivalent"?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8302071, member: 93670"] point A (bolded above) is very far from factual. Take a [I]dagger[/I] with no feats & no class abilities adding to it compared to a generic d12 cantrip. The cantrip does 1d12 avg6.5 1-4, 2d12 avg 13 5-10, 3d12 avg 19.5 11-16 & 4d12 avg26 17+ 20in a prime attribute s not a difficult benchmark t hit. Just A dagger with 20 strength will deal 1d4(avg2.5)+5 for 7.5 average damage each attack. Mot martial classes get at least a second attack at level 5 & fighters get a third/fourth at 11 & 20th. [USER=42856]@Galandris[/USER] already noted howdata shows that nearly all 5e campaigns end right around level 10. Add to that the fact that this matchup is with a higher damage cantrip that basically goes unused for resistance reasons stacked alongside a ridiculous benchmark of a strength based dagger fighter with no feats/class abilities adding to the dagger.... That matchup only gets worse when you factor in weapon & cantrip choices people actually make and start adding feats/class abilities that mostly only apply meaningfully to the weapon users. Leveled spells are often so hamstrung that consuming the spell slot resource is generally incapable of doing much more than jut catching up to at will damage under the best of conditions with good damage rolls. With that said, lets say that you are somehow right about cantrips giving casters "roughly the equivalent of the martial character's attacks".... [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/sane-magic-item-prices.462510/post-8260051']Given how strongly wotc pushes against the idea that resistant to nonmagical b/p/s should ever be a meaningful factor[/URL], the only characters realistically dealing half damage with any regularity are casters who are also hit by magic resistance & legendary resist. Can you show some math to support "roughly equivalent" damage from cantrips or explain just how wide the disparity would need to become in order to no longer be considered "roughly equivalent"? [/QUOTE]
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