Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8304884" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>Efficiently winning combat and being good in combat are two different things. The mastermind that can use help as a bonus action from 30 feet every turn is going to be hell good in efficiently supporting the party in combat, especially if you have an assassin with poisioner or a Champion-Paladin multiclass in the party. But the mastermind is not very good at combat himself, and worse than many/most other Rogue builds.</p><p></p><p>5E wizards do have a lot of options and rituals in particular are awesome, but that is non-combat. Wizards are also hands down the most powerful spellcasters in terms of what they can do with their spells, getting more options than any other class, and having more prepared.</p><p></p><p>That said, even for wizards I don't see a lot of reliable game changers until they are at high level. Most of their spells get saves every turn, or worse enemies can free other enemies. This means they will knock a few enemies out for a turn or two, but often with no damage and often enemies are resistant or immune to them or get advantage on saves because of magic resistance or both. Wizards either cause low amounts of damage to large numbers of enemies with spells like fireball or they help the party beat them on action economy with spells like sleep at low levels or hypnotic pattern at mid levels. But these are not game changers in the games I have played. They are difficult to employ due to allies in the area of effect, and even when you have a clean shot the damaging ones don't typically do enough damage to kill opponents or and the disabling ones don't disable them for more than a round or two. Now don't get me wrong, disabling an enemy for a round or two helps a lot, and causing 4 orcs to all lose 20hps in a turn helps a lot as well, but this pales in comparison to what martials can do all day long</p><p></p><p>I think stunning strike is a more effective game changer than most wizard spells of 4th-level and below. The reason is a Monk can do it more times per day and more times per turn. It is also not magic so magic resistance does not work against it and almost no enemies are immune to stun. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't remember all the combat rules from 2E, but in 1E a wizard would typically not be able to cast stoneskin in melee.</p><p></p><p>At high levels in 1E there were a two good magic-user spells - maze and wish. These were good because they got no saves but even these faced magic resistance. Nothing else would work worth a darn on anything of roughly equal level. Sure like 5E they were good at buffing their allies or debuffing enemies.</p><p></p><p>Compare that to a high level fighter who with good magic items could take out Lolth in a single round or even Tiamat if he won initiative.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8304884, member: 7030563"] Efficiently winning combat and being good in combat are two different things. The mastermind that can use help as a bonus action from 30 feet every turn is going to be hell good in efficiently supporting the party in combat, especially if you have an assassin with poisioner or a Champion-Paladin multiclass in the party. But the mastermind is not very good at combat himself, and worse than many/most other Rogue builds. 5E wizards do have a lot of options and rituals in particular are awesome, but that is non-combat. Wizards are also hands down the most powerful spellcasters in terms of what they can do with their spells, getting more options than any other class, and having more prepared. That said, even for wizards I don't see a lot of reliable game changers until they are at high level. Most of their spells get saves every turn, or worse enemies can free other enemies. This means they will knock a few enemies out for a turn or two, but often with no damage and often enemies are resistant or immune to them or get advantage on saves because of magic resistance or both. Wizards either cause low amounts of damage to large numbers of enemies with spells like fireball or they help the party beat them on action economy with spells like sleep at low levels or hypnotic pattern at mid levels. But these are not game changers in the games I have played. They are difficult to employ due to allies in the area of effect, and even when you have a clean shot the damaging ones don't typically do enough damage to kill opponents or and the disabling ones don't disable them for more than a round or two. Now don't get me wrong, disabling an enemy for a round or two helps a lot, and causing 4 orcs to all lose 20hps in a turn helps a lot as well, but this pales in comparison to what martials can do all day long I think stunning strike is a more effective game changer than most wizard spells of 4th-level and below. The reason is a Monk can do it more times per day and more times per turn. It is also not magic so magic resistance does not work against it and almost no enemies are immune to stun. I don't remember all the combat rules from 2E, but in 1E a wizard would typically not be able to cast stoneskin in melee. At high levels in 1E there were a two good magic-user spells - maze and wish. These were good because they got no saves but even these faced magic resistance. Nothing else would work worth a darn on anything of roughly equal level. Sure like 5E they were good at buffing their allies or debuffing enemies. Compare that to a high level fighter who with good magic items could take out Lolth in a single round or even Tiamat if he won initiative. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll
Top