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Spellcasters and Balance in 5e: A Poll
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8306563" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>The Oberoni fallacy is a commonly-used (informal) fallacious argument, wherein a person asserts that, because the issue can be patched around with house-rules or other forms of DM intervention, there is no issue with the rule in question.</p><p></p><p>You haven't <em>quite</em> committed it, as you admitted there IS an issue and you'd like to see it addressed. But you're getting very, <em>very</em> close to doing so, in that you'ree basically saying, "everyone who runs 5e should be willing to adjust any of the rules at any time, so this shouldn't actually be an issue in practice."</p><p></p><p></p><p>Even adjustments as small as this have gotten pushback when I've requested them. Heck, something as incredibly minor as, "Can I get History proficiency as a Dragonborn, because Dragonborn kind of <em>suck</em> and I like the History skill for flavor reasons?" tends to get either firm "no" or suspicious "what con are you trying to pull" questions a significant majority of the time. It's part of why I've mostly stopped applying for 5e games (alongside the aforementioned "it takes 2-3 sessions <em>minimum</em> to reach level 2, let alone get into the actually <em>interesting</em> levels.")</p><p></p><p></p><p>Whether it is weird or not, it's a demonstrable thing I've experienced while looking around for 5e games. I don't know anyone I can game with IRL, and I'm more comfortable gaming online, so I have to apply to offered games. I've found that online gaming for 5e isn't meaningfully different from what it was like back in the days of 3e, nor from what Pathfinder games are like today. Most DMs want to run the rules purely as-written, or exclusively with their personal set of modifications and nothing else, not changing these things over the course of a campaign. Players that request third-party or self-made content are almost always denied, even if the DM in question has no actual problem with the design of the content in question.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, if this is the case then there's no point discussing the aforementioned Wizard vs Fighter. If you don't believe the 5MWD is even <em>potentially</em> an issue, we literally cannot discuss the balance question in the first place. I appreciate you being forward with this, it saves me rather a lot of time and proverbial ink, as it were. I promise I'm not being flippant when I say that. If we disagree on such fundamental things, trying to play around with far more extended elements is just going to frustrate both of us, and I'd rather not waste your time and mine with pointless frustration.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8306563, member: 6790260"] The Oberoni fallacy is a commonly-used (informal) fallacious argument, wherein a person asserts that, because the issue can be patched around with house-rules or other forms of DM intervention, there is no issue with the rule in question. You haven't [I]quite[/I] committed it, as you admitted there IS an issue and you'd like to see it addressed. But you're getting very, [I]very[/I] close to doing so, in that you'ree basically saying, "everyone who runs 5e should be willing to adjust any of the rules at any time, so this shouldn't actually be an issue in practice." Even adjustments as small as this have gotten pushback when I've requested them. Heck, something as incredibly minor as, "Can I get History proficiency as a Dragonborn, because Dragonborn kind of [I]suck[/I] and I like the History skill for flavor reasons?" tends to get either firm "no" or suspicious "what con are you trying to pull" questions a significant majority of the time. It's part of why I've mostly stopped applying for 5e games (alongside the aforementioned "it takes 2-3 sessions [I]minimum[/I] to reach level 2, let alone get into the actually [I]interesting[/I] levels.") Whether it is weird or not, it's a demonstrable thing I've experienced while looking around for 5e games. I don't know anyone I can game with IRL, and I'm more comfortable gaming online, so I have to apply to offered games. I've found that online gaming for 5e isn't meaningfully different from what it was like back in the days of 3e, nor from what Pathfinder games are like today. Most DMs want to run the rules purely as-written, or exclusively with their personal set of modifications and nothing else, not changing these things over the course of a campaign. Players that request third-party or self-made content are almost always denied, even if the DM in question has no actual problem with the design of the content in question. Oh, if this is the case then there's no point discussing the aforementioned Wizard vs Fighter. If you don't believe the 5MWD is even [I]potentially[/I] an issue, we literally cannot discuss the balance question in the first place. I appreciate you being forward with this, it saves me rather a lot of time and proverbial ink, as it were. I promise I'm not being flippant when I say that. If we disagree on such fundamental things, trying to play around with far more extended elements is just going to frustrate both of us, and I'd rather not waste your time and mine with pointless frustration. [/QUOTE]
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