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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8308666" data-attributes="member: 87792">Such as a paladin, a bard, and a sorcerer. Real helpful there. It's not an assumption. It's a conclusion based on everything you have written. The 4e warlord was - even with more similar competition. Its guiding identity is the Warlord. The thoroughly explored 4e martial class that does not cast spells but is focused on allowing its allies to shine by helping them attack, giving them extra attacks, and picking them up when they go down. It makes the plays rather than scoring the goals. And it is no more a spellcaster than the fighter is. The question is not "what is its identity?" but "what is the best way to translate that identity to 5e?"If you do not understand its identity that's not because it doesn't have one. It's because you are both ignorant of what it is and either unwilling or unable to understand when it is explained. Caused at least in part by your exceptionally ideosyncratic understanding of spells as being other than spells. Good job no one is asking you to make it then. But you aren't. You are a veteran player who refuses to see spells as spells. You are not like a newbie. Or like anyone else I am aware of. It took me about two minutes of reading if that to understand the warlord in 4e and that edition required a lot more understanding. Newbies will have no problem. The fluff is obvious.  In short if we do a naughty word job the job done will be naughty word. This is obvious. And what's 3.X got to do with the warlordYay! The highest damage striker around as opposed to someone who gives other people attacks. Your thought is simply wrong. The bard is a full caster. The position might be related but the implementation is more different than fighter and barbarian. Fighter and melee cleric difference would be closer. Do you think the fighter is redundant because the melee cleric exists? Because that is the level of difference in implementation we are talking. Again full caster. The post-Tasha’s Ranger is good. If by "like the Ranger" you mean "late to the party" better late than never. I really should stop bothering.</blockquote>

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