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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8308878" data-attributes="member: 87792">Correction:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In 4e there were actual defined class roles that encouraged all classes to be good at something without being good at everything, normally backed up by a class specific mechanic. <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Not having the name striker hasn't changed the barbarian from a raging monstrosity that hits people hard or the rogue to be a sneaky trickster that can't tank and can't heal and not having the name leader hasn't changed the expectations of the cleric to be a healbot.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In many cases the roles inspired a worthy new class. You can play Invoker-style bringer of divine wrath with a cleric in 5e but they are nowhere near so good at doing it and on any given day you could get up and decide to be a healer that day</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In still other cases the structure inspired a relatively worthy focus that when the classes were winnowed down could fold into another class but probably wouldn't have been invented if there was no encouragement to push the boundaries. The warden is a good example of this - if you don't consider class bloat to be an issue (or don't until it hits 3.X levels) then it's a worthy enough class, but if you value keeping class bloat down then the Paladin of the Ancients covers much of it.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4e class customisation was much greater than in 5e for pretty much anything except the Sorcerer and the Warlock (where two Sorcerers can have entirely non-overlapping spell lists and two Warlocks can share no spells and no invocations). Subclasses were there in 4e. And it's entirely possible for two monks or even two fighters to move completely differently and only share the basic class feature that makes the class, almost never even making the same attack.</li> </ul></blockquote>

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