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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8308917" data-attributes="member: 87792">Nope. I expect them to be effective at them. But no one in their senses thought that the warlord was as good at healing as the cleric. The warlord however was labelled as having a secondary role as striker - while the cleric's secondary role was also leader thanks to the divine power source.4e does exactly what you are suggesting it should and did right from the PHB.Are you talking about secondary roles which were in the PHB or are you talking about hybrid classes; I'm right now playing a Berserker who's an explicit hybrid of defender and striker and able to switch between the two roles.Once more 4e does exactly what you claim to want and the way you claim you want it.Four roles primary, four roles secondary. To fill in the grid so every possible primary and secondary role combination is covered including doubling down would take ... 16 classes. Given that the 5e PHB has IIRC 11 classes I don't think an extra five would be "an insane amount".OK. Let's take it a step deeper and imagine we want to throw in the grid for not just primary and secondary roles but for tertiary as well. We do this not through new classes, but through subclasses. We can, for example, call the striker subclass of the rogue that gets extra damage on their sneak attack something like the Brutal Scoundrel - and the controller subclass that provides debuffs with most of their attacks something like the Ruthless Ruffian. Which means that if we want the entire grid filled in three levels deep we just need four subclasses per class. Most 5e classes have more than that.Not only does 4e do what you say is insane, 5e is pretty close to insane by your metrics here.Yay! Let's remove the rogue from the game given that they are an extreme burst damage class and therefore a striker. Or possibly we should give it back its flexibility; the 4e rogue could be more of a controller or leader than any 5e rogue I have ever seen could.Or is that not what you actually want?</blockquote>

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