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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8309633" data-attributes="member: 23751">Automatic 3? At 3rd level it was 2d4+2 and hit automatically. By 9th level it was 5d4+5 for a 1st level spell. That's a lot better than 8.  The 16 doesn't apply, because the UA was a book of optional rules only, most of which I never saw allowed by any DM.  In any case, since we're talking level 1 or 2 as shown by the 3 damage, while the fighter was MAYBE hitting one Orc for maybe 8 damage, the Wizard was putting the other 4d4 of them to sleep with a single spell that had no save.Okay.Clerics need not apply.  In 1e they were pretty much heal bots and that was about it.  As for second level spells, Stinking Cloud rocked harder than any Fighter ever could at low levels.And thanks for the chuckle.  A 13th level Wizard who was using Mordenkainen's Sword instead of good spells deserved to lose.Not usually, but in any case you're moving the goal posts here.  We're discussing Wizards and Fighters, not monsters with or without magic resistence.Since we're 11th level here, the Wizard puts a Wall of Force dome over the Fighter which there is no save against.  Then he casts Transmute Rock to Mud under the now trapped Fighter, again with no save.  It works since the magic is targeting the stone under the Fighter and not going through the Wall of Force.  Then the Wizard changes it back to stone encasing the now sunken in mud Fighter.  Fight over and not one save was allowed.You never had a good Wizard it seems.  A LOT of spells when used creatively like I did above, become auto death for things, including Fighters.In 3e spells were so reliable that a Fighter had no chance outside of a very generous white room of beating a Wizard.  At least not once they got to 5th level or so.  In all the years I've seen the 3e Fighter vs. Wizard comparisons, you are the only person to have the chutzpah to try and tell me that they were balanced.  Even the most die hard Fighter lovers just argued about how they got the short end of things.This is completely wrong.  YOUR command lasts 1 round with a save.  Gods have abilities that include a special command ability."STANDARD DIVINE ABILITIESUnless otherwise specified, all gods and demigods have the following special abilities, above and beyond whatever other abilities are listed:Command: as the spell, but lasting 2 rounds for lesser gods and 3 rounds for greater gods. There is no saving throw vs. this divine ability."Lolth's lasts 2 rounds as she is a lesser goddess.No chance.  He has no save and can do nothing while she rips him a new one.  He clearly didn't play her correctly.</blockquote>

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